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WWII deep wave submarine combat patrol insignia


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Its hard to focus the collection sometimes, but I try to really push when it comes to WWII submarine material. I thought I'd put together a thread on some deep wave badge variants, with some small changes in details/ dies that I've noticed. So first, lets start with a "glamor" shot to get things rolling- then the substance of the thread to follow...

 

On the left, two garden variety Vanguard badges. On the right, two H&H badges that look similar at first glance, but differ in the details. The background- a 1944 fleet-sent and censored letter by a CPhM from USS Guardfish to his wife on Submarine service stationary showing the deepwave combat insignia and submarine service envelope.

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-Specializing in WWII (and earlier) Submarine material. Enthusiast of history and artifacts from all service branches.

 

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closer shot...and thats all for tonight. It's way too late for me to be doing this now. Will keep at it over the next few days.

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-Specializing in WWII (and earlier) Submarine material. Enthusiast of history and artifacts from all service branches.

 

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First up- A H&H type I deepwave insignia. On the front, note the stars have been ground on top for flatness. It also appears that two silver stars flank a single gold star. The top of the gold star was applied separately- the gold star is actually two pieces. The reason for this unusual (and labor intensive) application of additional metal to the top of the gold star is beyond me. Maybe it didn't look "gold" enough compared to the two silver stars, or maybe the owner wanted the gold star in the middle to stand out more. The back is more telling.

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-Specializing in WWII (and earlier) Submarine material. Enthusiast of history and artifacts from all service branches.

 

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overall shot of the back. The owner used rivet-based stars, which are probably a poor choice for these thin sheet stamped badges. The rivet type are more useful for the Gemsco, Amico, etc badges that had thicker metal planchets. Due to poor "bite" of the rivets, the owner had the back filled with solder, probably to keep the stars from rattling around. Note the slight burr to the edges near the top of the conning tower, and the crisp, clear H&H logo. Note the LACK of "sterling" in the waves, as will be seen on the badge below. Also note the 4 nub roller, and simple wire pin/hinge setup. This badge was metal-content marked however, and can barely be seen under the hinge of the pin.

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-Specializing in WWII (and earlier) Submarine material. Enthusiast of history and artifacts from all service branches.

 

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closeup of hinge area- you can barely read what looks like "ING" to the right of the hinge.

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-Specializing in WWII (and earlier) Submarine material. Enthusiast of history and artifacts from all service branches.

 

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A different H&H type I deepwave insignia. The stars are not what I consider proper for this badge- they look like campaign stars. However, thats the way it came from me so thats the way it stays. Looking closely though, there is an obvious die flaw (looks like a hairline) on the bow of the boat that is not present on the badge above.

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-Specializing in WWII (and earlier) Submarine material. Enthusiast of history and artifacts from all service branches.

 

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The back. Note the appearance of "sterling" in the waves itself. The pin, hinge, and rotor catch have all changed. The H&H logo is poorly defined, and the "burr" of the strike is not really there. The edges of this badge are very "roundish", and it would have made me paranoid that this was a fake if it weren't the exact same setup (with the same die flaw and pin/catch setup and soft details) in Jones's book. His example is on page 146, top 2 panels. Remarkably, the example below that (front only, no front die flaw) on the same page looks to match the example I posted first.

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-Specializing in WWII (and earlier) Submarine material. Enthusiast of history and artifacts from all service branches.

 

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Lastly, a H&H type II insignia. Note the sharp details throughout, and the unique 7 hole arrangement that came standard with this badge. Most of the rhodium finish has flaked off the front of this insignia, but some is retained in the recesses on the back.

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-Specializing in WWII (and earlier) Submarine material. Enthusiast of history and artifacts from all service branches.

 

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Back of the type II. Note the catch and rotor is like the bottom Type I badge, but the pin and hinge is like that from the top Type I badge. This more or less matches the setup seen in Jones's book, page 147.

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-Specializing in WWII (and earlier) Submarine material. Enthusiast of history and artifacts from all service branches.

 

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Pic with the wire pin open, showing the "sterling" mark in the waves, as in the second type I badge above.

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-Specializing in WWII (and earlier) Submarine material. Enthusiast of history and artifacts from all service branches.

 

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Thats all for now- I wont do much with the Vanguard pieces since there really isnt too much for variation from what I've seen. I own one with the brass/ bronze colored pin, and one with a slightly heavier, silver colored pin. Since that might be a replacement pin, there's not much to talk about. All other details are the same.

-Specializing in WWII (and earlier) Submarine material. Enthusiast of history and artifacts from all service branches.

 

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Josh:

 

WOW - I had no idea! Thanks for the education...now I'll know what I'm looking at when I'm on the prowl at the SOS for these... :thumbsup:

 

Dave

Only a weak society needs government protection or intervention before it pursues its resolve to preserve the truth. Truth needs neither handcuffs nor a badge for its vindication. -Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy

Peace is not the absence of war, but the defense of hard-won freedom. -Anton LaGuardia


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Thanks for the complements and hope you enjoyed. To my knowledge no one has brought up the possibility of trying to date these H&H badges by their hardware and strike. Unfortunately my badges are not attributed, and even if they were my guess is that these were private purchase "upgrades" of different badges the navy handed out upon first earning the award. For example, given the number of Amico patrol pins out there, I'm guessing that company's stock made up the bulk of what the navy distributed. Thus the award date wouldn't necessarily correlate with approximate issue or manufacture date of the badge.

 

I'll take a stab using what I know regarding hardware on the date-able H&H/ Imperial sub badges, and say that the first example of the H&H Type I badge above probably represents the earliest badge here, followed by the Type II badge, and finally by the second example of the Type I badge.

 

If anyone else has additional examples of these H&H badges with differing hardware combinations and/or detail to the strikes, I'd be interested in seeing them. Please feel free to add to this thread.

-Specializing in WWII (and earlier) Submarine material. Enthusiast of history and artifacts from all service branches.

 

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  • 7 months later...

Some background surrounding the Submarine Combat Patrol Insignia: Details below are paraphrased from Bernard Bastura, History of US Sub Vets WWII, 1981.

 

The insignia was approved on March 26th, 1943. It was designed by LT CDR Browder G. Nelson. A Navy circular dated May 19th 1943 stated that the combat patrol insignia would be available by June 1st, 1943. The circular noted two companies from which the insignia would be immediately available- Hilborn-Hamburger and American Insignia Co. (AMICO). As of May 29th, 1943- an updated circular was printed to note "this insignia is available from most insignia manufacturers".

 

I've attached an image of the first note I can find describing the insignia upon its inception in "ALL HANDS" in May '43.

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-Specializing in WWII (and earlier) Submarine material. Enthusiast of history and artifacts from all service branches.

 

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In Oct '44, "ALL HANDS" described updated regs. for the award including allowing for additional holes in the badge from 3 to 7, and the new use of silver stars to denote 5 patrols. I've posted this excerpt below. This most likely places the production and design of the 7 hole H&H Type II badge I show above after Oct' 44.

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-Specializing in WWII (and earlier) Submarine material. Enthusiast of history and artifacts from all service branches.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 years later...

This is an older thread, but Josh did such a great job starting something here, I thought I would add to it in hopes of generating more current inputs. I would really like to see these type threads on all the different patrol badges.

 

Here are my two HH-sterling patrol pins.

 

The one on top is near mint and still has a lot of the original frosting on the front and back. Based on condition, I doubt this one was actually worn but I don't know for sure. It is the style with the sterling mark under the hinge pin. The one on the bottom is the style with the sterling mark in the waves. It appears more worn and my guess was actually worn.

 

Both examples utilize the 4-nub style roller, unlike the example in Jone's reference.

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I'll start with the top example.

 

You can see it uses the stars with attachment prongs.

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A friendly reminder that my images and material posted here are not to be considered "fair use" or "public domain". If you want to legally use my material outside this forum, for any purpose, my express written permission is requested and required beforehand.

 

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A close up of the Hallmark. The H-H eagle is quite sharp on this one and more detailed than the other example.

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Here's the metal content mark, showing "ling" under the hinge pin for sterling.

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and the 4-nub style roller catch.

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A friendly reminder that my images and material posted here are not to be considered "fair use" or "public domain". If you want to legally use my material outside this forum, for any purpose, my express written permission is requested and required beforehand.

 

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The second example is similar to the one shown in the Jones' reference but again, with the 4-nub roller.

post-50776-0-36673400-1383814025.jpg

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A friendly reminder that my images and material posted here are not to be considered "fair use" or "public domain". If you want to legally use my material outside this forum, for any purpose, my express written permission is requested and required beforehand.

 

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This shows the H-H eagle hallmark, which is a weaker strike compared to the earlier shown example. Perhaps its due to wear, but I think the strike is weak based on Josh's earlier observations and the fact that this one still has some burring near the conning tower edges.

 

Also, note the raised sterling mark in the waves forward.

post-50776-0-86730500-1383814296.jpg

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A friendly reminder that my images and material posted here are not to be considered "fair use" or "public domain". If you want to legally use my material outside this forum, for any purpose, my express written permission is requested and required beforehand.

 

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