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WAR MOVIE BLUNDERS


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The 1873 Trapdoor carbines and rifles used in some of your older Civil War movies.

I also have a tendancy to count pistol and rifle rounds, when you don't see people

reloading.

 

Or NOT reloading! ;)

 

-John

Interested in US Naval and Marine aviation history, aircrew wings & insignia.

WW2 US Navy and Marine Grumman Wildcat, Avenger & Douglas SBD aircraft.

Also interested in US 5th AF in Australia.


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How about all small arms sounding exactly alike, not louder for heavier-duty guns.....a carbine sounds just like .30 MG. An M.P.40 sounds like a Garand which sounds like a .45, etc.

 

MEMO TO SOUND MAN: Insert Gunshot #1 here.

 

I recall a non-military movie where a Desert Eagle .50 (introduced with great awe) sounded like a .22 -- and just like the .38 snubnose that fired back. And neither of them so much as rattled the wine glasses in the scene. And no blast or smoke or ejects....

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midway: how many scenes used from tora tora tora ??? i lost count

 

pearl harbor: let's see. 2 fighter pilots become experienced B-25 bomber pilots in 4 mons and make the doolittle raid. right???

 

blunders: http://www.moviemist...com/top_war.php

"There are no great men, there are only great challenges that ordinary men are forced by circumstances to meet."- ADM William F. Halsey

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Here is one I noticed a few days ago when I watched: The Desert Rats--again. When the German Infantry attack the British/Australian positions for the first time, watch a few of the soldiers who are throwing themselves across the barbed wire fence. You will see the rubber "bayonets" flip-flopping around. Other than that guffaw--I love the movie.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have supplied a lot of movie companies with artifacts for films. Part of the problem is the production people frequently do not know what to ask for.

 

An example. About 15 years ago they were filming Titanic with George C. Scott in Vancouver. They asked for two British War Medals. One I was able to identify from their description of size and shape. The other just had to round with a King on it. It wasn't until I got paid that the penny dropped. The check was from White Star Productions. I telephoned and asked if the medals they were trying to copy were for Captain Smith of the Titanic. They said how did I know that? I stated the round medal I sent them would look foolish to any British sailor because it is for long service to enlisted seamen not ships' captains. I told them I knew which medals the captain was entitled to and could supply. They said they had already started filming with the others.

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Here is one I noticed a few days ago when I watched: The Desert Rats--again. When the German Infantry attack the British/Australian positions for the first time, watch a few of the soldiers who are throwing themselves across the barbed wire fence. You will see the rubber "bayonets" flip-flopping around. Other than that guffaw--I love the movie.

 

You know I think that in the movie Pork Chop Hill all real M1 Rifle and M2 Carbine Bayonets were used fixed to the weapons, and real barbed wire too, as seen in the stirring sequince where the first GIs dive on the undestroyed wire barrier and use their bodies as human carpets for their squads to get over the wire.

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"The Green Berets" staring John Wayne. Epic blunders. The movie was filmed mostly at FT Benning, GA. My favorite blunder is throughout the movie, pine trees are often seen. I didn't see a single Georgia Pine in Vietnam.

Ken

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Duty is the sublimest word in our language. Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more. You should never wish to do less."

GEN Robert E. Lee

 

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post-70300-0-78806000-1361641370.jpg I'm not sure if this scene was from "Pattton" or "Last Days of Patton", but it was a proverbial sore thumb to this ex-GI. Note position of second M-1 at Present Arms. If that had been me, Drill Sgt Jackson of E/15/4 would have taken me aside, put his arm around my shoulder, and quietly said, " now dog-gone-it you need to try a little harder and perhaps the next time you'll do better." ....sure he would have.... after about a million push-ups and a couple of hours of belittling me, my parenting, my lack of a brain , and various other insults! Maybe some KP thrown in to boot.
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Re #484, The Green Berets:

 

1. When Big John arrived in Da Nang (golly, it looked like Lawson AAF), there were no hills/mountains, East (ocean), West (mountains) or any hills (South and North).

2. Then he hopped into a brightly marked, shiney Stateside M-151 jeep and drove into downtown Da Nang -- all the shops had CHINESE signs (Vietnamese is written in Roman characters). (Someone once told me that they had used set dressings from the movie "Suzie Wong".)

3. The ARVN SF captain (George Takei, Sulu from Star Trek) spoke Vietnamese haltingly and with a very chopped intonation -- of course, he is a Japanese speaker after all, just parroting a script. Yet the Montagnard village chief at least SOUNDs right -- he is apparently of Chinese ancestry, which language is "sing-song", like VN. But wait a sec: why would an unschooled, iggerant hill-tribe guy speak VN so well? HE should be speaking haltingly and with a bad accent!

 

I saw the movie three times. First, before entering the service. I gave it "C", as I had read the book and judged it against that. Second time was at Ft Benning....lots of snide and profane comments from the audience, plus guffaws. Its grade dropped to D minus. Third time was at a drive-in in Fayetteville -- commentary from the audience even more negative and raucous -- these guys had horns too; severe displeasure was registered by leaning on the horn for long periods; multiple long tooting drowned out the entire audio. Cars began leaving, revving engines and screeching of tires in their escape. Definitely an F.

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Not a movie blunder per say, but today I watched "Rambo" First Blood" for the umteenth time, and this was the first time that I noticed when Sheriff Teasel (Brian Denahey) goes back into his office and is sitting behind his desk, I noticed sitting on a counter behind him and on the left hand side is a frame with 3 medals in it. I presume they are the good sheriffs awards for his military service although in the movie there is never really any indication that he served, except for when he is talking to Colonel Trautman when he asks if he thought that Rambo was the only one who had a tough time after Vietnam.

 

What I saw in the small frame was the Distinguished Service Cross on the left side, a Purple Heart medal in the center, and what appears to be a Silver Star on the right.

 

I never noticed it before...

 

Leigh

"Pain is only Weakness Leaving the Body"

MSG Leigh E Smith Jr
US Army (Retired)

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Not a movie blunder per say, but today I watched "Rambo" First Blood" for the umteenth time, and this was the first time that I noticed when Sheriff Teasel (Brian Denahey) goes back into his office and is sitting behind his desk, I noticed sitting on a counter behind him and on the left hand side is a frame with 3 medals in it. I presume they are the good sheriffs awards for his military service although in the movie there is never really any indication that he served, except for when he is talking to Colonel Trautman when he asks if he thought that Rambo was the only one who had a tough time after Vietnam.

What I saw in the small frame was the Distinguished Service Cross on the left side, a Purple Heart medal in the center, and what appears to be a Silver Star on the right.

I have the box set of the first 3 movies. I need to throw that DVD in and take a look. I never noticed that, either.

In my mind, that really changes my perspecitve on the whole dynamic. From the first time I ever saw the movie, I got the idea that the Sheriff was a 'Nam vet as well and didn't have any patience for the 'drifter' type vet who couldn't adapt. "Heck, I got back into society," the character wouyld likely say, "So why couldn't he?"

But knowing the character was that decorated. Wow. That throws the whole premise on it's ear, in my mind...

Lee Bishop Formerly known as "Ratchet 5" with the 2nd Infantry Division (yes, in REAL life)

US WW2 War Correspondent collector

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Not a movie blunder per say, but today I watched "Rambo" First Blood" for the umteenth time, and this was the first time that I noticed when Sheriff Teasel (Brian Denahey) goes back into his office and is sitting behind his desk, I noticed sitting on a counter behind him and on the left hand side is a frame with 3 medals in it. I presume they are the good sheriffs awards for his military service although in the movie there is never really any indication that he served, except for when he is talking to Colonel Trautman when he asks if he thought that Rambo was the only one who had a tough time after Vietnam.

 

What I saw in the small frame was the Distinguished Service Cross on the left side, a Purple Heart medal in the center, and what appears to be a Silver Star on the right.

 

I never noticed it before...

 

Leigh

 

Yeah...those medals were Brian's "personal" medals:

"I lied about serving in Vietnam and I'm sorry. That was very wrong of me. There is no real excuse for that. I was a peace-time Marine, and I got out in 1963 without ever serving in Vietnam. I started the story that I had been in 'Nam, and I got stuck with it. Then I didn't know how to set the record straight."

 

Sorry...I couldn't resist. :P

I do not profess to be a militaria expert, but I conduct as much research as I am capable of and then write about my findings.
Check out my blogs, The Veteran's Collection (general militaria) and Chevrons and Diamonds (military baseball)

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By George, your right, we see the SMLE Mk III quite plainly. :huh:

 

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Wait till they start pulling Garand clips from their belts and try to fit them into the Lee Enfields :)

Interested in US Naval and Marine aviation history, aircrew wings & insignia.

WW2 US Navy and Marine Grumman Wildcat, Avenger & Douglas SBD aircraft.

Also interested in US 5th AF in Australia.


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The other day watching "From Here to Eternity" I noticed again that in the movie during the Pearl Harbor attack. Burt Lancaster as First Sgt. Milton Warden garbs a BAR:

 

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climbs the ladder to the roof to fire at the attacking Japanese planes. When he gets to the roof:

 

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Like magic no bipod.

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Things I've noticed in the 1995 HBO movie “In Pursuit of Honor”


Overview of the movie:




A more thorough review of the film in historical context:




Just my opinion....


While it is interesting to see the rarely glimpsed inter-war years of the U.S. Army presented in a film, I think this movie does not accurately represent the customs of the service, the equipment or uniforms, and the story line is most unbelieveable. Actually, the premise on which the film is based is absurd.


The depiction of the era is inaccurate, as are the many of uniforms, equipments, and the social/military behavior of the soldiers. I understand that movie makers often must alter the story somewhat and perhaps change the characters or sequence of events and that they can't always acquire 100% accurate gear.


=======


Most of the horse equipments are not correct for the era, saddlebags, headstalls, etc. and the saddles aren't packed correctly.


Officers are wearing service cap devices on their campaign hats.


Johnson wears trouser suspenders without service coat in public.


Enlisted men are wearing service cap devices on their campaign hats.


Enlisted men are not wearing collar discs on their shirt collars.


The retiring colonel’s daughter (Gabriel Anwar) tells the young Lt. to “stay out of the brig”. “Stockade” is the correct army term for a jail. “Brig” is the Navy/Marine term.


Trumpet call played at western post is not “Recall”, as it would have been at that time of the day.


New colonel reports to post under arms. Military personnel did not go around wearing sidearms like a wristwatch—especially off the post and especially stateside.


Morning flag ceremony does not have correct trumpet call. “To The Colors” should have been played.


During the barracks scene where Don Johnson’s character gets drunk and brandishes his pistol in the barracks the other senior NCOs look on helplessly until one summons the young Lt. to defuse the situation. This is ridiculous. The NCOs would have handled the problem and would never have called on a “shavetail” Lt. to handle the problem.


The Mexican government would never officially allow US troops on their soil for this (or probably any other) purpose. The memory of the 1914 and 1916-1917 “invasion” by US troops was too fresh and no nation casually allows the armed forces of another country on its soil.


When the young Lt. and the senior Sgts report to the officer at the killing pit, all of them salute the senior officer. Correct protocol would be for only the senior officer (i.e. the young Lt.) in charge of the detail to salute.


At the end of the movie when the remaining Sgt. and horses break for the US-Canadian border river crossing, the trumpet call played is not “Charge”.


The representation of Gen. MacArthur as a God-like figure with the power to suppress the national media is silly. Scandal and “yellow” journalism wasn’t dead and the appetite for sensational news topics was no different in the 1930s than it is now. MacArthur could no more stop such news from getting out than he could stop the rain. The public would no more brook the killing of the horses (on financial grounds if nothing else) than the army would.


Regarding the premise of the movie:


Economy was (and had been) the watchword in the peacetime US Army since the Revolution and it is inconceivable that the 1930's U.S. Army would actually destroy valuable property rather than sell it at auction. The army would have found ready buyers on the civilian market for such highly trained mounts. As most of us know, the U.S. army was the nation’s leading recycler at least 100 years before it became a national interest in the 1960’s.


The idea that a handful of men could run a large herd of horses from the southern US border to the northern US border without being stopped by civil or military authorities defies belief. The movie ignores the fact that US troops were stationed throughout the country and would have been able to move in front of the "deserters". The movie assumes that the only troops available to pursue the deserters were based at the US-Mexican border and were forced to follow behind the fleeing soldiers. It also assumes that the army had little or no aviation assets available to track such a body, let alone motor vehicles.


I cannot believe that Canada would allow armed US soldiers with stolen US government property across the border. I suspect that the soldiers would be denied entry or, if they managed to cross, would have been arrested and returned to US control.


Mexico would be the only logical place to go with the horses. For a few dollars the soldiers could buy the silence of the local authorities and would be able to sell the animals very easily to either US or Mexican ranchers. It would be very easy to remain beyond the reach of US authority in 1930s Mexico.


Of course, that story wouldn’t be worth a whole movie…..


Regards,


Scott

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Excellent appraisal of the film. I was pretty ignorant of it, to be honest, but everything you say make sense. Is it even remotely based on any shred of fact?

Looking for the following:

452nd and 447th Bomb Group items

Anything 12th Armored- especially uniforms

155th Assault Helicopter Company, Camp Coryell, or Ban Me Thuot Vietnam items[/center]


WWII US Navy Uniforms from the Battle Off Samar: USS Johnston DD-557, USS Hoel DD-553, USS Samuel B. Roberts DE-413, USS Heermann DD-532, USS Dennis DE-405, USS John C. Butler DE-339, USS Raymond DE-341, USS Fanshaw Bay St. Lo, White Plains, Kalinin Bay, Kitkun Bay and Gambier Bay...


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Garandomatic.....


According to this MilitaryHistoryOnline.com article (http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/20thcentury/articles/macarthurandthecavalry.aspx) it does not appear to be based on fact.


"What a fantastic story, as written by Dennis Lynton Clark and directed by Ken Olin. As per Mr. Clark, this surprising tale is based upon oral history heard from cowboys working on his father's ranch in Montana during the 1940's and was verified, in a drunken moment no less, by an unnamed commanding officer during service with an armored division in the U.S. Army in the early 1960's.[3] In Pursuit of Honor proudly proclaims "this film is based upon a true story," and the truth is that many have accepted uncritically, and unthinkingly, this cinematic version of an event that, based upon all available evidence, never took place. "


The article has a lengthy "Footnotes and Bibilography" so I assume it was thoroughly researched.


Regards,


Scott

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Scott,

I expected nothing less from you in regards to an analysis of this film, and you did a great job. Couldn't have done better myself, except to include the 'single action 1911' Don Johnson almost shoots the LT with... :wacko:

Lee Bishop Formerly known as "Ratchet 5" with the 2nd Infantry Division (yes, in REAL life)

US WW2 War Correspondent collector

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Good show horsecavalry no PUN intended :lol:

 

I never seen this "flic" as I didn't have Cable back in 95, but I always knew it stunk, especialy when I seen it's VHS box cover in my local video store :lol: no way I was gonna rent that.

 

Yes the Service Cap Device worn on the Campaign hats told me it would be a stupid and grossly inaccurate movie.

 

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Another uniform inaccuracy would be the wear of Khaki shirts, these didn't come out till what 1933-34 right.

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi Lee,

 

I'd forgotten about the "single-action"....... Been a while since I watched the movie. I think there are other points I left out (based on my notes), but tried to include the main ones.

 

An acquaintance of mine really, really loved the movie and based his impression on what he saw in it. It was one of those movies I really wanted to like, but after the second viewing I just had to take notes so that I could help him more fully understand it's inaccuracies in order to develop a more correct impression.

 

Regards,

 

Scott

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Patches,

 

I'll have to double check on the khaki shirts, but I suspect you're right. I've seen numerous pictures of troopers as late as 1940 wearing wool shirts and khaki breeches. I guess khaki shirts were easier to acquire than wool ones and likely more comfortable.

 

Regards,

 

Scott

The uniforms all came from Western Costume. I actually own the uniform worn by Don Johnson.

 

There is a million things wrong with and probably the worst is the "true story" tag they put all over the packaging.

 

I collect mainly 30s,40s and 50s horse cavalry stuff myself so this film is a big fail.

 

A lot of shortcuts taken in the production of the film,it was well before HBO matured.

 

To me it is strange because for the same amount of cash they can get it right.

 

Oh well.

Always looking for WW2 Cavalry,Pack Mule and Constabulary horse platoon stuff.

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On In Pursuit of Honor, Don Johnson's charactor was a First Sergeant if I recall, correct? If so was he wearing the proper First Sergeant ranks of 1932, ie the pre 1942 two rocker type? I can not find a decent or even good image of him in this flic.

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