Short Sword

[ponyradish]

I need help identifing this short sword and scabbard. It is about two feet long, numbers on brass crossguard match numbers on leather scabbard. It has hard wood handles but I can not find a makers mark. Looks to be early 1800's??? Tony in NH Help!

[Tony-in-NH]

I need help identifing this short sword and scabbard. It is about two feet long, numbers on brass crossguard match numbers on leather scabbard. It has hard wood handles but I can not find a makers mark. Looks to be early 1800's??? Tony in NH Help!

 

 

I can not help you on this one. I do not have a clue.

[SKIPH]

ponyradish,& Tony- Check out the middle photo. About 2-3" in front of the guard it looks like a rusted over stamping, almost like a Collins. Take a pencil , and rub the lead over it, and see if it leaves anything visible. It won't hurt the blade. SKIP

[SKIPH]

With a magnifying glass it looks like "Wilkerson" on the lower part. I could be wrong. But, it sure looks like a stamp. SKIP

[Jack's Son]

With a magnifying glass it looks like "Wilkerson" on the lower part. I could be wrong. But, it sure looks like a stamp. SKIP

Skip,

Is that a maker's mark under the "W" ??

[SKIPH]

Jack's Son-It could be. I see where your talking about, but it's hard w/ the rust. You see the "W" in what I think is "Wilkerson" too? SKIP

[elbertson]

Skip,

Is that a maker's mark under the "W" ??

 

I can't make out anything for sure, but it looks like cursive writing above with a pronounced lower case g, and a lower arc of writing I can't make out. Not much help, I know, but maybe a piece in the puzzle.

[ponyradish]

I just checked it over with a glass and there is no maker stamp. It is surface rust. Anyone got any more clues? It sure looks to be a military piece and once had a frog attached.

?

[Jack's Son]

The shape of the guard, the handle and the rivets remind me of a WWI Collins Machete.

It does appear to be military, but earlier then WWI. I would guess SAW.

[SKIPH]

I think somewhere along the line this was issued Civil War era. Does anyone have the book on "Collins Knives and Machetes"? I am getting concerned w/ my eyes, I still think I see a stamp, but ponyradish has the blade so I'm going with his appraisal. SKIP

[ponyradish]

Skip, I was also thinking CW era. Also along with this piece was a 1850's Bowie Knife made by Manson Sheffield. Could this be a Confederate item????

[SKIPH]

ponyradish- Not up on that era, but have seen a lot of documentation over the years that Sheffield Cutlers sold a lot of "Bowie Knives" in the states . Particularly around the gold rush, Civil War, and western expansion periods. I'm sure they sold a bunch to both sides during the CW. SKIP

[gunbarrel]

O.K., since everyone here is taking a guess, here are my 2¢ I don't think it's U.S., or British. I think it's a short sword--not a machete. Machetes used during the the SAW had long blades. I also think that this sword was made in Germany in the mid to late 1800's.

[SKIPH]

Let's see if we can up increase our knowledge. ponyradish- What are those letters or digits stamped into the guard? Maybe check all the brass for any acceptance stamps. THX SKIP

[ponyradish]

The numbers stamped into the guard match the three digits stamped into the leather on the scabbard. I can find no other marks or stampings anywhere.

[SKIPH]

Gunbarrel may have a point about German origin. Matching serial numbered knife to scabbard. Interesting! But, the handles on most German made items of that period tend to be more ornate, or brass. The wood handle lookslike American styling to me. SKIP

[Jack's Son]

Guys,

I hate to break the discussion, but I'm learning from y'all. Please keep it up !! :nerv0003:

[Tony-in-NH]

I need help identifing this short sword and scabbard. It is about two feet long, numbers on brass crossguard match numbers on leather scabbard. It has hard wood handles but I can not find a makers mark. Looks to be early 1800's??? Tony in NH Help!

 

 

 

I set a link on this topic to a friend who has more knowledge on COLLINS items than I do, which is none. Most of you Gentlemen here will be amazed to learn that SHE has an extensive collection of Collins items.

[Jack's Son]

Just a point of clarification.

While I was mentioning a Collin's Machete, I only did so as a comparison.

I realize it is NOT in the machete, but that I think it is a Collin's product.

[kanemono]

This short sword is typical of type of sword carried by many country's pioneer and artillery units during the nineteenth century. They were used to cut brush and small trees to build breastworks. The Germans called them "facinemesser's".

Dick

[ponyradish]

Because of the crossguard I believe this to be a fighting sword. The brushcutters were cheaply made and had no crossguard. This is a seriel numbered piece and the quality is quite good. I'm still leaning tword US.

[Tony-in-NH]

Because of the crossguard I believe this to be a fighting sword. The brushcutters were cheaply made and had no crossguard. This is a seriel numbered piece and the quality is quite good. I'm still leaning tword US.

 

 

From my friend I spoke about earlier.

 

"Everything about the blade leads me to think that it is not a Collins. The crossguard is reminicent of the Collins surival machete of WW2 only yours is S shaped. For the age of this piece, Collins was using a similar, straight shaped cross guard but it was only 3 3/8" long. The grip is very non- Collins, especially with the brass rivit on top but it could have been re-gripped. The fact there is no maker mark and it is not stamped with the Collins logo is another tell. Nice piece. Were the scabbards in the Civil war always blackened? Could this be a Spanish piece? Could it have been imported for the Civil War or even manufactured in the US- North for the South? So many questions... I hope some one steps foward with an acceptable and evidenced opinion"

 

Jan

[SKIPH]

Tony- We all thank you for the effort. Thank your friend. Someone will get it figured out. THX SKIP

[Tony-in-NH]

Tony- We all thank you for the effort. Thank your friend. Someone will get it figured out. THX SKIP

 

 

I will do that. She is a fountain of knowledge on all that is Collins. You would not believe some of the items in her collection. She even has original blueprints for a Collins M3/4 fighting knife that never went into production. I count her as a good friend.

[nuke41]

I believe kanemono is correct; it’s most likely a WWI era European pioneer sword/machete. I have 2 Austrian ones from WWI and while not the same as yours they are similar in construction and style. These pioneer swords/machetes are extremely study, much more so than most full length swords I’ve seen over the years.

 

Jeb