Auburn Vets Day Parade 2010

[PFCMcP]

I thought that I'd share a couple of photos of me in my gear at yesterday's Auburn Veterans Day Parade in downtown Auburn, WA State. I'm sure that a few other forum members were either there as marchers or as onlookers. I marched a with a group that calls itself "The Line Doggies." Everthing that I'm wearing is original to the Vietnam era with the exception of the M18 smoke grenade.

[PFCMcP]

Here's another gear shot!

[oldfireguy]

That's a rough looking bunch. The guy in the tiger stripes looks like a natural born killer if I have ever seen one.

 

Were those canteens full?

[Sgt_Rock_EasyCo]

Looks good.

 

Do I detect guys carrying weapons like modern soldiers again?

 

Rock

[kjones5452]

Forgot how much a grunt carried. Look good. Where'd the tiger stripes come from?

[willysmb44]

Great shots! I was in the area but didn't go, how muchdid y'all get rained on?

That's a rough looking bunch. The guy in the tiger stripes looks like a natural born killer if I have ever seen one.

I know these guys, and that guy is former 82nd AB in real life. Really nice guy, but he has that weathered look of a longterm NCO, still looks the part and looks younger than his years.

[ColBob506]

Very nice gentleman!! Rock,get your detectors repaired or something.

Sparrow

[Sgt_Rock_EasyCo]

Very nice gentleman!! Rock,get your detectors repaired or something.

Sparrow

 

We can disagree. Not too many people carried weapons at that high-port stance with the butt of the weapon up by their shoulder. Our sling was a piece of paracord, or an extra long and wide sling. If you were lucky you got hold of an M60 sling so that your weapon hung low.

 

A buddy of mine was dressed in Vietnam gear just like these guys and he was carrying his CAR 15 like a modern soldier. This technique wasn't used except for urban combat starting in the 1980's and didn't work well with the longer M16's. Keep in mind that his sling isn't what I would hav used because it's too short. His movement will be limited to his right and he would have to unsling his weapon or turn his entire body to the right to engage the enemy. That delay could kill him. That's basic gear prep that separates reenactors from the real thing.

 

Modern grip

 

Older Carry

 

 

Just a Pet Peeve of mine. We carried our weapons differenty than they do now.

 

Rock

[Sgt_Rock_EasyCo]

In the first pic the guy on the left and the guy next to him are carrying their weapons at the modern ready position.

In the second pic down the guy has his buttstock clearly above his elbow. It just wasn't done like that until modern warfare.

 

As I said, we used to employ this method only when in urban combat to give the weapon a shorter pivot around corners but in the field (jungle) we didn't.

 

Rock

[kjones5452]

Nice looking set of the gold tigers.

[Sgt_Rock_EasyCo]

Nice looking set of the gold tigers.

 

They used to be mine. I traded them to him for a set of 42's.

 

Rock

[ColBob506]

As my daughter says "W.E.~~~~~~

[jumpwings]

In the first pic the guy on the left and the guy next to him are carrying their weapons at the modern ready position.

 

Rock

 

WWII "re-enactors" do that aswell, I'm afraid... There was a heated debate in the UK forum, and a lot of misunderstandings...

[oldfireguy]

I know these guys, and that guy is former 82nd AB in real life.

 

I know him also. He lives right down the street from me. I've known him for years.

[PFCMcP]

Actually, I'm not carrying my M-16 in any sort of "carry" position in both of my gear photos as I was resting the magazine end of my weapon on one of my ammo pouches for convenience during the photo. I also figured that carrying my rifle in a horizontal position would mess with the "lines" of the shot; we were thinking aesthetics for the photo as opposed to depicting a grunt on patrol. I can assure you that we held our weapons correctly during the parade as we've studied up on the subject, including reading Rock's earlier posts on the subject in the past! ;-)

 

Lee & Fred have seen us in action covering several periods; I think that they can attest to the fact that we've done our homework.

 

John

[Sgt_Rock_EasyCo]

Actually, I'm not carrying my M-16 in any sort of "carry" position in both of my gear photos as I was resting the magazine end of my weapon on one of my ammo pouches for convenience during the photo. I also figured that carrying my rifle in a horizontal position would mess with the "lines" of the shot; we were thinking aesthetics for the photo as opposed to depicting a grunt on patrol. I can assure you that we held our weapons correctly during the parade as we've studied up on the subject, including reading Rock's earlier posts on the subject in the past! ;-)

 

Lee & Fred have seen us in action covering several periods; I think that they can attest to the fact that we've done our homework.

 

John

 

Sounds good John,

 

I've never meant offense when I speak of this subject, it's just a peeve.

 

Good to see that it appears coincidental. So many reenactors don't know any better and become offended when someone makes a comment. In my experience the "carry" position was taught primarily during Military Operations in Urban Terrain (MOUT) and was designed to keep the weapon swiveling in any direction and around corners to minimize body exposure and to allow left or right hand operation. Your weapon must lead around corners. We were training with live ammunition on special forces ranges and worked well for us at times. Keeping our weapon centered on our body was used for room entrires and multiple sectors of fire.

 

I find it odd to watch a WWII Reenactor trying to high carry an M1- amusing acutally. In many occasions troops held their weapons low or ran with them in one hand- Even in Vietnam. I learned to casual carry my weapon at my side or resting on my web gear.

 

Rock

[willysmb44]

Lee & Fred have seen us in action covering several periods; I think that they can attest to the fact that we've done our homework.

I can attest, indeed, as John says. I know these guys quite well and I know they know which way to carry weapons depending on time period. Not only are they all great guys, they have their act together. That being said, I can understand why people would think the one photo might prove otherwise, if they don't know the people personally as I do.

I have actually found photos over the years of WW2 soldiers resting with weapons at darned near any position you can imagine. I need to dig up photos of me in the field on active duty, as I often carried my M-16A1 British-style, across my almost folded arms. I worked with a Brit unit once and saw them carrying their SA-80s like that, and I found it to be a comfortable way to carry a rifle. I can't help but wonder if someday, a photo of me carrying like that might turn up in book as "proof that pre-9/11 soliders carried their weapons" in such a manner... :think:

[jumpwings]

As much as I agree wi the carrying of the weapons thing, and I liken the excuse of the photo "errrm, it was just for effect etc", (but please don't be offended, we all do it, try to justify ourselves, ye posted photos holding the weapon tthe "wrong way", and well, ye should expect flak), but I do find the critisms of these guys quite ironic... I mean... Vietnam, or post Vietnam vets, who "re-enact" WWII taking the wee wee out of guys who are doing their own era...

 

 

Anyway, I opened up something similar quite some time ago elsewhere, enjoy:

http://www.wwiireenacting.co.uk/forum/view...pons+WWII+style

 

 

"Life is dynamic, things and knowledge changes as does the science of - science! At one time the world was flat, and it took a lot of painfull dialogue to make the worldly "scientits" to realise it wasn't "

[Sgt_Rock_EasyCo]

I can attest, indeed, as John says. I know these guys quite well and I know they know which way to carry weapons depending on time period. Not only are they all great guys, they have their act together. That being said, I can understand why people would think the one photo might prove otherwise, if they don't know the people personally as I do.

I have actually found photos over the years of WW2 soldiers resting with weapons at darned near any position you can imagine. I need to dig up photos of me in the field on active duty, as I often carried my M-16A1 British-style, across my almost folded arms. I worked with a Brit unit once and saw them carrying their SA-80s like that, and I found it to be a comfortable way to carry a rifle. I can't help but wonder if someday, a photo of me carrying like that might turn up in book as "proof that pre-9/11 soliders carried their weapons" in such a manner... :think:

 

Generally soldier carry their weapons however is comfortable on occasion but occasions can change. Loaded weapons and tactical situations often change the manner of handling of weapons. New recruits are conditioned with exrtreme prejudice on weapon handling. Troops assigned to units are conditioned differently, and units with highly experienced soldiers have their own comfort zone as well.

 

The *general* handling of weapons has changed primarily in the late 80's through to modern day more than it did from WWII to Vietnam. I think the change in combat tactics away from suburban "land battle doctrine" of the cold war to the urban fighting and insurgency that followed. Slings adapted so that weapons are held higher toward the ready position (or whatever they call it now) and that's my general point of contention.

 

Prior to this carrying method, troops carried their weapons generally lower. The buttstock wasn't generally resting above the forearm and my point is that many people in modern reenacting tend to condition themselves to carry their weapons in the modern fashion rather than what was generally done previously.

 

I am not pointing out how a reenactor must carry their weapon but generally speaking the modern method is not how it was done in WWII or in Vietnam. Finding one or two pictures to support a difference of opinion would make that an exception. Using an exception isn't good practice in my opinion. But that's just my opinion.

 

Rock

[oldfireguy]

Because I know John and a few guys in the photo I have to laugh at the comments made about the weapons carry. I was going through several of the books I have on Vietnam prior to the post and I can find numerous photos of soldiers carring their weapons the same way these guys are with the exception of the shotgun and I'm sure if I looked hard enough I could find shotgun photos. One thing I hadn't noticed before were the amount of guys that didn't even have slings on their weapons, M-16's included.

 

I saw all sorts of different ways to carry weapons when I was on active duty. Granted it was post war VN by year or so but there were a lot of VN era guys left. I packed a 203 and had several ways worked out to carry it including some of the methods in the photo.

[AirborneGrunt]

just have to add my two cents worth. As John stated, we do our homework, and we are not above taking advice. Whatever we can do to improve our impressions. Ask us to dump our Gear or empty our pockets. Our group does everything from 1855 Puget Sound Indian Wars to Desert Storm. With 150 + years of history sometimes one can get befuttled. We were caught in a SNAFU moment. It's the little things that seem to matter. Had several Vets tell me my gear looks great, but I was missing one thing. "Tabasco" so now I carry that in my gear as well. Someone ask about the Tigers, well with out a dought Rocks are originals (Damn! wish I could aford some), but the ones I'm wearing are from Moore Militaria. That's all Thanks for the heads up.

 

Strike Hold

Lawrence Bateman

Sgt B co. 3/504PIR

82nd Abn Div.

1988-92

[67Rally]

I thought that I'd share a couple of photos of me in my gear at yesterday's Auburn Veterans Day Parade in downtown Auburn, WA State. I'm sure that a few other forum members were either there as marchers or as onlookers. I marched a with a group that calls itself "The Line Doggies." Everthing that I'm wearing is original to the Vietnam era with the exception of the M18 smoke grenade.

 

Funny, we were staged right there by you (just ahead of the Jeep) and I saw you guys getting this photo taken. I love that parade...amazing to see the people pour out their gratitude for the vets.

[PFCMcP]

It's funny how the photos don't reflect how wet the day was with the misty rain and all. I was bummed that the low cloud ceiling obscured the fly-over by the Air Force. We heard the plane, caught a couple of glimpses, but previous years have been better.

 

John

[willysmb44]

It's funny how the photos don't reflect how wet the day was with the misty rain and all. I was bummed that the low cloud ceiling obscured the fly-over by the Air Force. We heard the plane, caught a couple of glimpses, but previous years have been better.

I had to cmmit to something else that day but I was in the area and it was horrible outside. You're right, it's been decent weather in years past. I haven't done that parade in years.