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17th AB / 194th Glider Infantry Regiment, D Company Re-enacting group Prague, Czech republic


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  • 4 weeks later...
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  • 4 weeks later...

Great pictures guys, good to see that this fine Regiment and Division is represented world wide.

 

If you ever get a chance to come over to England how about hooking up for a show.

 

Regards

 

Lee

FAAA

 

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Great pictures guys...

In the Central Europe the Czechs (our "Southern Brothers" as they are very nice called in Poland) have excellent opinion of the best scale modellers. I am not surprised by the fact that the Czechs are perfectionists in the reenecting as well which is a kind of "1:1 scale modelling".

 

Congratulations for the 194th GIR Living History Group!

 

Congratulations as well for beautiful vintage-look Czech girls!

 

:bravo:

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The way you have photoshopped the photos makes them look like they were taken sixty five years ago. Congratulations on that. My biggest critique would be all of those huge American flag patches and even the 17th Airborne patches. You'll have to search a LONG time before you ever find a buzzard claw being worn on a combat uniform.

 

Keep up the good work!

Allan

Never under-estimate the power of prayer.

 

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Do you guys have any evidence of use in the ETO of the M7 flash hider and late style carry handle for the 1919a6?

 

From my research I've found that both were developed and adopted by the Infantry Board & Ordnance Department during the war, but saw no service. Theres not a ton of photos and references to the A6 out there, so I'm always interested to see new sources I havent seen or heard yet.

 

Chris-

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The way you have photoshopped the photos makes them look like they were taken sixty five years ago. Congratulations on that. My biggest critique would be all of those huge American flag patches and even the 17th Airborne patches. You'll have to search a LONG time before you ever find a buzzard claw being worn on a combat uniform.

 

Keep up the good work!

Allan

What photos with big flags you mean because there are two groups of photos? One was taken in Czech Republic by our photographer and second one was taken in England by other group.

 

About patches, we know that is sometimes no right we are no stupid guys with basic knowledge about 17th AB or rookies. But all is depend what you do and what period you portrait. We have 3 combat operations.

 

Battle of Bulge some patches are presented on photos.

Operation Varsity no patches on M43 but on M42 you can see patches we have photos of evidence from vets.

Occupation of Germany you can se patches on parade uniforms.

 

We are using patches for one reason. You know that 17th is like forgotten division only some people know that they fought on Ardennes and those them across Rhine. I can write much more about history but there we are spooking only about patches. After that people saw us with so amazing patch they are asking us what do you have on your shoulder and we answering this is 17th AB………………..

 

Ask someone about largest Jump on the WWII you get this answer it was D-Day or Market Garden.

Ask someone about. Which airborne division fought on Battle of Bulge? You get answer 101st and 82nd.

 

Only few people know where is true.

 

So that is reason what we do 17th AB.

 

We were on FARWEL REUNION OF 17TH AB.

I saw many veterans there and they was so happy meet us there. We spend with them nice time and we are appreciated be there with them. So I thing patches on our uniform are on right place for show them all of world for no forgot who was 17th AB.

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Allan wrote:My biggest critique would be all of those huge American flag patches and even the 17th Airborne patches. You'll have to search a LONG time before you ever find a buzzard claw being worn on a combat uniform.

 

There is the answer. I have couple photos. Enjoy them. Size of our flag are good for Operation Varsity.

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  • 3 weeks later...
What photos with big flags you mean because there are two groups of photos? One was taken in Czech Republic by our photographer and second one was taken in England by other group.

 

About patches, we know that is sometimes no right we are no stupid guys with basic knowledge about 17th AB or rookies. But all is depend what you do and what period you portrait. We have 3 combat operations.

 

Battle of Bulge some patches are presented on photos.

Operation Varsity no patches on M43 but on M42 you can see patches we have photos of evidence from vets.

Occupation of Germany you can se patches on parade uniforms.

 

We are using patches for one reason. You know that 17th is like forgotten division only some people know that they fought on Ardennes and those them across Rhine. I can write much more about history but there we are spooking only about patches. After that people saw us with so amazing patch they are asking us what do you have on your shoulder and we answering this is 17th AB………………..

 

Ask someone about largest Jump on the WWII you get this answer it was D-Day or Market Garden.

Ask someone about. Which airborne division fought on Battle of Bulge? You get answer 101st and 82nd.

 

Only few people know where is true.

 

So that is reason what we do 17th AB.

 

We were on FARWEL REUNION OF 17TH AB.

I saw many veterans there and they was so happy meet us there. We spend with them nice time and we are appreciated be there with them. So I thing patches on our uniform are on right place for show them all of world for no forgot who was 17th AB.

 

With regards to the patches you said it well. You are doing a great job of educating everyone who goes to your reenactments about the "forgotten airborne division". If the number of patches per soldier is too high it may not be historically accurate, but there is a trade off between ttoo many patches being worn and telling the story of the Golden Talon Division and you are going it superbly. Keep up the great work!

 

Allan,

Your point about patches is also well taken. There are period photos showing 17th men wearing patches in combat, although very few. I recall the photo of the two bazooka men guarding the bridge on 2 Jan. One is wearing an M43 with 17th patch, the other an M42 with flag patch. Again, FEW wore them as you say.

 

Oz

Oz

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  • 2 weeks later...

I honestly don't know where all the positive comments are coming from, probably lack of knowledge in general. I don't like it at all. This looks way too much like your typical showboat reenactorism movie airborne group, only difference being the 17th patch instead of the 101st patch. There's a LOT of room for improvement. Owning the kit does not make an impression, wearing the right stuff at the right time in the right way does. This does not look right at all. What are you even reenacting? It looks like a bad 1960's war movie.

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I honestly don't know where all the positive comments are coming from, probably lack of knowledge in general. I don't like it at all. This looks way too much like your typical showboat reenactorism movie airborne group, only difference being the 17th patch instead of the 101st patch. There's a LOT of room for improvement. Owning the kit does not make an impression, wearing the right stuff at the right time in the right way does. This does not look right at all. What are you even reenacting? It looks like a bad 1960's war movie.

 

Only for your info. We are reenactin Husits but I thing you dont know about much. So may be next time we can discus about Mr. Spilberg.

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I honestly don't know where all the positive comments are coming from, probably lack of knowledge in general. I don't like it at all. This looks way too much like your typical showboat reenactorism movie airborne group, only difference being the 17th patch instead of the 101st patch. There's a LOT of room for improvement. Owning the kit does not make an impression, wearing the right stuff at the right time in the right way does. This does not look right at all. What are you even reenacting? It looks like a bad 1960's war movie.

 

Do you think we don´t wear the right stuff? Sorry, I don´t think so. But maybe you can tell we what is wrong. Copy here some of our photos and describe our mistakes.

1st Lt. Pavel "Padre" Poch

D Comp. 194 GIR 17 AB

Re-enacting group Czech republic

 

www.194thgir.com

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My observations at a first glance:

 

 

First of all, what do you actually portray ? I see M41, M42, M43 and HBT uniforms AND class A uniforms all in the same set of photos. What’s the month, timeframe and location? For late 1944 and 1945 you’d mostly be in full M43’s.

pocket patches

leather jackets

class A uniforms hanging from tent walls,

giant red cross vests (KFC!)

Garrison caps (those things were left in duffel bags)

Parachutist helmets for gliders

Parachute scarves (not entirely wrong, but not used much)

Sunglasses (same, emphasizes the “movie” thing)

Goggles everywhere

Lack of wool shirts

White t-shirts, camp shirts

Leggings under m43’s

Knives tied to suspenders

Knives and first aid packets tied to the right side of suspenders (Where do you put your rifle butt when shooting!)

Camp lucky strike was a giant transit camp near Le Havre!

Improper weapon carrying method

Speedy Gonzalez

M41 and especially M42 suits for glider riders

HBT caps

Improper adjustment of kit

Shotgun

Pistol belts for riflemen, but nowhere to put the ammo

Post war chinstraps

3 cell grenade pouches with 2 LTD’s

.45s in brand new shoulder holsters on many guys

Stuff tucked under helmet nets

ID panel worn as a scarf, KFC?

Webbing that does not match weapon

Dozen different ways of helmet camouflage

Flopping chincups

Bright yellow virgin cavalry gloves

 

 

I don’t mind the patches, as you need to present yourself as a unit.

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First of all, what do you actually portray ? I see M41, M42, M43 and HBT uniforms AND class A uniforms all in the same set of photos. What’s the month, timeframe and location? For late 1944 and 1945 you’d mostly be in full M43’s.

leather jackets

Lack of wool shirts

Improper weapon carrying method

M41 and especially M42 suits for glider riders

Improper adjustment of kit

Pistol belts for riflemen, but nowhere to put the ammo

Webbing that does not match weapon

Dozen different ways of helmet camouflage

I don’t mind the patches, as you need to present yourself as a unit.

 

 

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I normally don't get involved in these types of criticisms on forums, but I have to make a few comments.

 

First of all much of what you identify with regard to the uniforms is correct, but some is not. I've posted your words and simply add two photographs that came directly from 17th A/B veterans. The show items that you have criticized begin portrayed by the reenactment unit.

 

One thing I've found after serving in the military, US Army and USAF since 1978 and still serving is that the only place things are standard is in garrison or during inspection. As soon as the troops, vehicles, helicopters or whatever leave the main gate, things tend to go to hell quickly as far as standard kit and uniforms go. Granted when the Col or General is about to show up things get tightened up. Before you start commenting that I must have been in lousy lackadaisical undisciplined units that is not the case. The lineage of units that I have served in is honorable and professional. It's human nature for things to get excessively rumpled and out of order after 30 days with no shower and only a few hot meals a week. Anything in the field that smacked of good order and discipline as far as uniforms and tidiness was concerned was referred to by the troops as "Chicken Sh!t" with great disdain. I can point to 3 great leaders who got great results from their men. Patton used one method and demanded ties in battle field conditions and despite, he did great things with his units. General Frederick (FSSF) used other means and got great results. So did "Terrible" Terry Allen. Their men loved Allen and Frederick and fought to the death for them because of the way they were treated. The two later generals only cared about "chicken sh!t" when absolutely necessary.

 

My point: The portrayal of many of the items you list, (some correct and some not) may be off the mark when all taken at the same time in one reenactment, so your point has some merit. But I am glad that there are folks in Europe who are taking the time to honor in as best a way as they can the sacrifice of our greatest generation. Not everyone has the dough to buy the right "kit". I'm just as happy to see a 14 year old kid in 1970s vintage fatigues at a WW2 event as I am to see a six figure salaried executive in 100% original US WW2 items. The effect of the spirit is the same; love of history and honor for those who fought. I doubt there's a WW2 vet who would be offended by wrong kit. post war chin cups and all of the other items. I do not see any damage being done by the portrayal and I support what they are doing.

 

A few well placed, good intentioned comments to the reenactors in the Czech Republic are well deserved. Constructive comments on how they can improve will be more readily accepted. My recommendation would be for them to focus on a particular time frame for each event; i.e. Bulge combat 1945 followed by garrison in Chalon sur Mer in one event, or training in England 1944; in the field and back at Camp Chisledon for the night.

 

My comments are intended in a spirit of friendship, so do not take them any other way.

 

Sincerely,

 

oz

Oz

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Goggles everywhere

Camp lucky strike was a giant transit camp near Le Havre!

 

I see just 1 guy with goggles...

 

Camp Lucky Strike was a camp where the 17th was, too.. or you mean the size? (that they haven't got 4000 original tents?) Or you mean the photo is not taken by Le Havre? :)

 

Yes, I do not like the shotgun.

 

Frankie

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