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Unmarked "Ronson" Rollpin hat size EGA WW1


Tonomachi
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I bought this a number of years ago at a flea market for something like $10.00 as I'm cheap. This EGA looks a little different then anything I've come across in this forum. There are no markings on the back and there is a rotating ball catch I think they call it on the back. Is this a sweetheart piece or was is actually worn?

 

Thanks,

 

Dennis

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teufelhunde.ret

Dennis, I am not certain as to its origins. It looks like the Ronson variety from the WW1 period? Perhaps Gary or Bob have seen this before and can ID it for you. s/f Darrell

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All: When I saw it it jumped out as 1914 WWI..........then after looking longer. I seem to think that its later.....1920s. Just a guess here as I don't have anything to compare it with. I'll defer to GLM on it. Gary?

S/F.....Bob

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Dennis,

 

As Darrell and Bob already stated, it screams of the WWI or M1914 pattern emblem, with the exception of that pin assembly. The pin assembly (both roller lock and hinge base) looks like something found on much later insignia and jewelry of the 1940's, so I'm completely stumped on this one. If I found it, especially with that type of pin assembly, my first assumption would be a piece of WWII "sweetheart" jewelry, but I would definitely hang on to it until more evidence surfaced because there are early pre WWI and WWI emblems known to exist with pin catches, just not this type of pin assembly. Can you measure it from the top of the eagle's head to the bottom of the lower anchor fluke or hook and let us know that measurement?

 

s/f, Gary

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Gary,

 

Many thanks to everyone for the information. The measurement you requested is 1 1/2" (see photo).

 

Dennis

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teufelhunde.ret

Just saw these on ebay. Have seen this before, this one has a "C" clip. Otherwise anchor/eagle appear to be identical... think.gif

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Hi Dennis,

 

The measurement certainly puts it in the exact size range for an early, as in WWI or 1920's, cap emblem. If your emblem had the loop catch the "sweetheart" piece Darrell just showed, I would think yours was for one of the non-grommeted white or blue pull-over covers of the WWI "Bell Crown" period. Pin back emblems are definitely known to exist from this period. That roller-lock catch really has me chewing my lip, though. It certainly looks much later than what should be on this emblem and from what I can see, it doesn't look like the pin or catch have ever been replaced. With that said, your emblem is a very nice "keeper" and maybe we'll all get lucky with someone showing an identical emblem from great-granddad and his Marine Corps service to get a definitive date for you. Yours certainly has the wear and look of an emblem that has been around for a long time, and if I had found it, it would have been snatched right up and put into the collection. A very nice find!

 

s/f, Gary

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  • 6 months later...
teufelhunde.ret

All,

 

In the never ending quest to finally determine the manufacturer of these emblems & sweethearts... acquired this one, without benefit of having more info about the reverse as the seller did not reply to inquiry. Well unfortunately there is no hallmark of any nature on the back of the emblem or pin holder. Undoubtedly this EGA & pin began life in the 20's. You will find additional conversations and photo's of both screwback & pinback emblems (and sweethearts) here:

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...2&hl=ronson

 

It was first identified as being of Ronson production here, by "themick"

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...0&hl=ronson

 

Irrespective of not having a hallmark I was pleased to realize this emblem is in fact a new variation to me, from the aspect of the extremely thin stamped copper used to manufacture this piece vice the heavy sheet metal used in the stamping of the other pieces, depicted in the threads listed above... the detail is amazing. Thus in the purist sense it is a "sweetheart".

 

I would really like to hear from anyone who may have an idea as to the bar from which the emblem is suspended... does it represent anything and or have a meaning of sorts?????? think.gif

 

s/f Darrell

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usmcaviator

Darrell,

 

I saw that one when it was on E-bay and missed bidding on it. I do not think that the bar has any significance beyond its use as suspension.

 

As far as the producer of the piece being Ronson, I have yet to see or hear of any proof that Ronson is the maker of this insignia. All three pieces that I own are unmarked. I contacted one of the top Ronson lighter collectors and asked whether he had catalogs of products. He said he was unaware (had never seen) or could not find any info on this piece. The only source I believe that says this is Ronson is in Orgel's small reference that we are all familiar with. Maybe he knows something we don't. I have heard other advanced collector friends call it a Ronson piece before, but am still curious why they do.

 

In doing a little research, I was able to find some interesting info. I found that "Ronson" was first called "Art Metal Works" which I immediately recognized as being on the back of many WW1 era (1917-1920) USMC enlisted buttons. It wasn't until the patent for lighters, which made Louis Aronson famous, did the company become known as Ronson. Could it be possible or more accurate to say that "Art Metal Works" made this EGA? We definately know that "Art Metal Works" made and stamped that name on USMC buttons during WW1. As far as its use goes, I know for a fact that this EGA was worn by Marines on hats, as my first piece (screw back) came off a well used enlisted dress blue cap dated 1917 (I also own a nice service piece, that came in a lot of common 1914 patterns).

 

I do agree that this version was probably produced later in WW2 in varying metals and had a pin added in many different configurations (east/west, north/south, northwest/southeast, etc), you get the picture. Ronson began cranking out war material during WW2 (they were in the munitions business during the war) so it is entirely possible that they broke out the old dies and popped some out for the homefront or maybe the even the workers at the plants. I dont know, lots of speculation at best, but still some food for thought about the Art Metal/Ronson roots.

 

There is a book put out by Schiffer Books entitled "RONSON'S ART METAL WORKS", anyone have it? It would be interesting to see if the piece is labeled or in the book.

 

Mike

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