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Any idea who this USAF Colonel is?


DutchInfid3l
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This was in a group of photographs mostly dated in 1955, from a Col. Donahue (he's in most of the pictures, two of which have his name and service number on them)
On the sides of the tarmac stairs attached to a plane in a few of the photos it says Johnston Island AFB. (If that helps)

Only thing written on the back is the Defense Department Photo stamp.
Though he has a Distinguished Flying Cross with OLC. and his SSI is the Military Air Transport Service.

Any ideas?

post-22-0-38060100-1402597405.jpg

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Sarah,

 

See this link, which may help:

http://militarytimes.com/citations-medals-awards/search.php

 

If I saw it correctly, only 14 second DFCs were ever awarded, and far fewer third ones.

 

Of the 14 only 5 were awarded for the period WWII-1955.

 

The MATS patch would have been authorized up until about 1966, which could mean a DFC sometime between 1955-66 I suppose too.

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If I saw it correctly, only 14 second DFCs were ever awarded, and far fewer third ones.

 

Of the 14 only 5 were awarded for the period WWII-1955.

 

Whoa...what award are you reading about? Second award DFCs number in the thousands... Maybe a typo?

 

With two DFCs and one Air Medal, this guy is just about impossible to ID by photo alone.

 

Dave

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Well, you never know.

Though, he DOES look familiar but, somehow I think it's more like a resemblance to say, a younger FDR, or something.

 

Anywhoo... I've been trying to search various Commanders of MATS and of 1502d Air Transport Wing just to see. So far, no luck.

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Whoa...what award are you reading about? Second award DFCs number in the thousands... Maybe a typo?

 

With two DFCs and one Air Medal, this guy is just about impossible to ID by photo alone.

 

Dave

:lol: I was referring to that link I provided, which (supposedly) included only USAAF/USAF 2nd DFCs.

 

Looks to me like there were actually relatively few DFCs awarded to airmen, certainly not in the thousands for a 2nd award. In writing airman Remembrances every day for the past 2 years the award rarely shows up... I've done 1190 profiles thusfar.

 

See for yourself:

http://militarytimes.com/citations-medals-...ce=7&page=7

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:lol: I was referring to that link I provided, which (supposedly) included only USAAF/USAF 2nd DFCs.

 

Looks to me like there were actually relatively few DFCs awarded to airmen, certainly not in the thousands for a 2nd award. In writing airman Remembrances every day for the past 2 years the award rarely shows up... I've done 1190 profiles thusfar.

 

See for yourself:

http://militarytimes.com/citations-medals-...ce=7&page=7

 

 

I am afraid that your source's information is absolutely false. Dave was correct, that there were lots of multiple awards of DFC's in World War II. I decided to pull out my copy of the Registry of USMA Graduates and flipped to my favorite class- the class of 1937- the class that stars fell upon. By quickly scanning bio's, I was able to find several instances of multiple DFC awards in World War II- the great thing about these bio's is that they often times list awards by time frame.

 

If you still wish to cling to your perception that there were only 14 issuances of an olc to the DFC prior to 1955, I would be happy to post a name by name response that refutes your flawed source. I'm not trying to be a jerk here, just trying to point out that your source isn't accurate and that multiple awards of the DFC in World War II were far more common that stated.

 

Allan

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I am afraid that your source's information is absolutely false. Dave was correct, that there were lots of multiple awards of DFC's in World War II. I decided to pull out my copy of the Registry of USMA Graduates and flipped to my favorite class- the class of 1937- the class that stars fell upon. By quickly scanning bio's, I was able to find several instances of multiple DFC awards in World War II- the great thing about these bio's is that they often times list awards by time frame.

 

If you still wish to cling to your perception that there were only 14 issuances of an olc to the DFC prior to 1955, I would be happy to post a name by name response that refutes your flawed source. I'm not trying to be a jerk here, just trying to point out that your source isn't accurate and that multiple awards of the DFC in World War II were far more common that stated.

 

Allan

Well, I'll accept that comment in good spirits, but am not "clinging" to anything... although, helping Sarah find out who that officer was would be nice.

 

The source, which I do not claim is correct but which does appear to have gone to a tremendous amount of work in researching, apparently refers only to USAF/USAAF DFCs, not to anyone who ever got one who ever attended West Point or the Naval Academy. They seem to be showing DFCs (among other major awards) from all periods as well, which is what drew me to an attempt with it.

 

I guess what we may need is a list of anyone who received 2 DFCs, and was a USAAF/USAF pilot in MATS. That would be a rather small number of possibilities, I would think.

 

No?

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:lol: I was referring to that link I provided, which (supposedly) included only USAAF/USAF 2nd DFCs.

 

Looks to me like there were actually relatively few DFCs awarded to airmen, certainly not in the thousands for a 2nd award. In writing airman Remembrances every day for the past 2 years the award rarely shows up... I've done 1190 profiles thusfar.

 

See for yourself:

http://militarytimes.com/citations-medals-...ce=7&page=7

 

 

The problem is that the Military Times link only supplies 2200 (and change) DFC citations...probably less than 10% of those actually awarded, if the percentage is close to what they have for the Silver Star (13,000 of an estimated 104,000).

 

DFCs were very common awards during WW2...even as a non-medal collector (I only collect them when they come with uniforms) I've owned at least a half dozen multiple DFC groups (up to four and five awards during WW2 alone) over the past decade.

 

So, as I said before, pinning the identity of this Colonel down based on awards is impossible.

 

Dave

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I guess what we may need is a list of anyone who received 2 DFCs, and was a USAAF/USAF pilot in MATS. That would be a rather small number of possibilities, I would think.

 

No?

 

I actually just sold a great 1940's book about MATS and shipped it this week. MATS had several thousand pilots through it...so coupled with the number of 2nd award DFC recipients, you'd be looking at hundreds of possibilities...

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I actually just sold a great 1940's book about MATS and shipped it this week. MATS had several thousand pilots through it...so coupled with the number of 2nd award DFC recipients, you'd be looking at hundreds of possibilities...

I do wonder if he was in MATS when he earned those DFCs though, it certainly is possible, but from what I've seen most DFCs go to combat aviators. So, very easily he could have been in that role earlier in his career.

 

Anyway, I'm just speculating like everyone else at the moment.

 

Just for interest, one wonders exactly HOW many USAF/USAAF pilots earned 2nd DFCs, and no more or less than 2. People keep saying hundreds or thousands... it would be a big surprise if that were so.

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By just doing a quick (and I do mean quick) scan of the Registry that I cited previously, I came up with 29 names of multiple DFC recipients among the graduates of classes 1936, 37 & 38. There was even one grad- Harris Rogner (Collum # 11251) who earned FIVE DFC's in World War II.

 

I have seven names of those who were awarded THREE DFC's and then 18 who earned two DFCs. A couple of those had one in WWII and one in Korea and one of the three DFC recipients had one in WWII and two in Korea.

 

The next issue that you have to consider with this MATS Colonel, is that he COULD have been a bomber pilot or a Troop Carrier pilot in WWII and been a transferred to MATS to serve in a command function later.

 

I would say that from what i saw based on my scans is that it would be rather rare to find a guy with two DFC's and only one or two Air Medals.

 

I also want to point out again that I have only looked at three USMA classes, and didn't take into account any ROTC, OCS, or other commissioning sources, nor did I go back to say, the class of 1930, which would have had pilots and could expect to see them flying missions in WWII to qualify, nor did I go past 1938 which gives you another large group of USMA grads to consider.

 

Looking at the ribbons carefully, we see that he has no Korean Service ribbons, so we can take Korean War DFC's out of the equation. Also, the fact that he has a star on his American Defense along with two campaign stars on his Pacific Theater ribbon, we should be looking for someone who was at Pearl Harbor in 1941. As there is no Philippine Defense or Liberation ribbon, we can assume he wasn't in the Philippines when the Japanese attacked.

 

I am afraid that it is going to be a "needle in a haystack" undertaking to ID the Colonel based on his ribbons alone. Perhaps Dave can recall who he sold the MATS book to, or we can find someone else who may have a copy who might be able to get lucky by finding a similar picture.

 

Allan

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Good info, Allan... and those quick numbers conform nicely with my own estimate of percentages having any DFC at all, far from hundreds and thousands. I've only written 1100+ profiles for airmen, but I'd say not more than 20 of those earned even one DFC, and nearly all of them were fighter or bomber crew which, as you rightly point out, he could well have been at one time.

 

And, "I am afraid that it is going to be a "needle in a haystack" undertaking to ID the Colonel based on his ribbons alone. Perhaps Dave can recall who he sold the MATS book to, or we can find someone else who may have a copy who might be able to get lucky by finding a similar picture."

 

That, of course, is the stuff that keeps me lingering in the dusty pages myself, like many of us.

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Good info, Allan... and those quick numbers conform nicely with my own estimate of percentages having any DFC at all, far from hundreds and thousands. I've only written 1100+ profiles for airmen, but I'd say not more than 20 of those earned even one DFC, and nearly all of them were fighter or bomber crew which, as you rightly point out, he could well have been at one time.

 

I'm kind of scratching my head here as I am looking at the math. Three USMA classes with approximately 30 multiple DFC recipients so approximately 10 per class. Now, I could go back to the class of 1929 or 30 and probably find officers who earned DFC's in those ranks. Additionally, I am positive that I could find recipients of the DFC for WWII clear up to the class of 1944 (maybe one or two in the class of 45?). Extrapolating 10 per class to earn multiple DFC's and going back to '29, would give us over seventeen classes- so 170 multiple DFC recipients? I'll have to see if I can find my source (perhaps it was S. Ambrose in "The Wild Blue") that said that less than 1% of the pilots in WWII were USMA graduates. Add the fact that bombardiers and navigators or even flight surgeons or observers could have received multiple DFC's, I think that Dave's "thousands" guess could very well be accurate. If I had my choice of guessing which was closer, 1,000 or the 14 you stated initially, I would have to side with Dave.

 

Additionally, the fact that it took eight soldiers in the AAF to support one flier and then adding in the crews who didn't fly enough missions to qualify for a DFC, and yes, the fact that the medal went to a lot more officers than enlisted, I could see how you would appreciate how rare the award of a DFC truly was in the AAF. However, over 40% of everyone in uniform was in the AAF, that makes for a rather large pool.

 

THis has been interesting, and it makes me appreciate more the relative infrequency of multiple DFC's. heck, I found more USMA grads in those three classes with multiple DSC awards than those with multiple DFC's.

 

Allan

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I've attached a photo (albiet small) of a fellow with a similar rack...however, he had two DFCs and two AMs. It's actually more unusual to see a single AM and multiple DFCs, but it seems that different USAAF units had different award criteria...some you flew 25 missions for a DFC, others you flew 50 missions...and those were just a couple in the ETO. In the PTO, it differed as well. The fellow in the photo in this post happened to be my uncle. However, I have no clue how many missions he flew as he his first major combat missions were flown as a bomb group commander (his squadron commands were done in the CBI, and not in direct combat roles).

 

I do know, from groups I've owned, that some units awarded a DFC for a "kill" of an enemy aircraft. One group I had was a bombardier with 2x DFCs...one for 25 missions (he was in the 8th AF) the other for shooting down an FW-190 with his .50 caliber in the nose...a pretty decent feat when you think about it!

 

The problem is that there is no single source to track down all of the AM/DFC awards. Before he passed on, I discussed this with Al Gleim, and that was the reason he never published a single-source register of them, unlike his 75000+ name Army Silver Star listing (and that was still missing at least 10% of recipients!)

 

Consider too that DFCs were also awarded for non-combat missions before and during WW2. I had a group to a general officer who, as a Captain, flew the first non-stop flight from somewhere (can't remember where) to Hawaii in the mid 30s. He also had multiple WW2 awards.

 

And last but not least, don't forget the mulitple DFC awards to NON-FLYING personnel. On the opposite wall of where my computer is in my office is a group of ribbons to a two-star infantry general officer...with TWO DFCs. Yep. That happened too.

 

So, when I say that there were thousands of multiple DFC awards, I stand by that. And I also say that it's going to be impossible to track down the identification of the fellow in the photo based on his awards alone. It's unfortunate, but it's a battle that simply cannot be won.

 

Dave

 

1KSKAER.jpg

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In World War II, the Army's records say that they awarded 107,410 DFCs and 18,908 oak leaf clusters. They did not break down multiple awards, but second awards are relatively common. Based on observation, bomber crews got a single DFC for a tour of ops, with multiples coming for additional missions or single actions. Trash-haulers got awards based on hours, so long-term, high-hour crews got DFCs at tour ends, but many never built up the hours to get past an Air Medal with olc. Multiple awards beyond a first oak leaf cluster tended to be to fighter pilots (I have two groups in which the pilot had 8 DFC awards).

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This is great.

 

If we could find roughly how many USAAF/USAF (not Navy, Marine or anyone else) pilots there ever were, we'd also be able to establish a reasonable percentage of DFCs.

 

I'm searching for that... saw it somewhere, several times.

 

I'm sure hoping somehow somebody will spark on who that Colonel is, some day. With his having that rank and an American Defense +star, one is tempted to start thinking he could have been early USAAC between wars too.

 

BTW, a flaw in my theory about small numbers is that not all of the profiles I've written were for officers or for pilot officers - so, my guess has to have been off. All of them are for USAAF or USAF personnel though.

 

Dave - small but perhaps relevant point on the Military Times listing is that what you see when you go to the link I provided is ONLY USAF, and comes to 2770 awards, most of which are not DFCs. Then, when I refined the search to just USAF DFCs, it only came up with 14, for whatever reasons. I was just passing it along more than anything, because they went to the trouble of posting the citations which I use when writing biographies. I probably screwed up somehow, but would genuinely value a better more reliable link to those higher awards for airmen if that one is not good.

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I believe the actual photo was taken in the late 40's (prior to Korean War) based on:

 

1. No post WW2 ribbons (e.g., Occupation, National Defense)

2. Presidential Unit Citation is above the right pocket (Army style). When did the USAF start including those in with the primary ribbon rack above the left pocket?

 

Kurt

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I believe the actual photo was taken in the late 40's (prior to Korean War) based on:

 

1. No post WW2 ribbons (e.g., Occupation, National Defense)

2. Presidential Unit Citation is above the right pocket (Army style). When did the USAF start including those in with the primary ribbon rack above the left pocket?

 

Kurt

 

 

Well, it would have to be AT LEAST June 1 1948, when the Military Air Transport Service (MATS) was established and activated from the Air Transport Command (ATC). Then anytime between that and 1 January 1966, when it was re-designated the Military Airlift Command (MAC).

Since on the reverse of the photo it states: Defense Department Photo (Air Force MATS)

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Well, it would have to be AT LEAST June 1 1948, when the Military Air Transport Service (MATS) was established and activated from the Air Transport Command (ATC). Then anytime between that and 1 January 1966, when it was re-designated the Military Airlift Command (MAC).

Since on the reverse of the photo it states: Defense Department Photo (Air Force MATS)

 

Due to a shoulder patch being worn (I don't believe the USAF continued wearing them much beyond the Koran War) and no National Defense ribbon, the latest the photo could be is very early 1950's.

Kurt

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When Air Force Blues were first authorized for optional wear Air Force wide in April, 1949, SSI were permitted to be worn Army fashion, i.e., current command assignment on left sleeve and wartime overseas unit assignment on right sleeve (ref. AFL 35-46). However, USAF SSI policy was soon modified to permit only the wear of wartime unit SSI on the left sleeve (ref. The Airman's Handbook, November 1950 ed.) Current command SSI were not authorized to be worn on Air Force Blues under this new rule.

 

As for the USAF MATS SSI, it was approved June 1948 (ref. p. 34, Aleck's SSI catalog), which makes the window for authorized wear of this SSI on Air Force Blues, left sleeve only, April 1949 until sometime in 1950. DutchInfid3l says the photo has an "official" chop and it appears to be a chain of command portrait or perhaps for the colonel's OMPF. It might be safe to assume the colonel is wearing his patch per regulation for this picture...ca. 1949/50.

 

The Forum reference thread on USAF transitional era uniforms and insignia has many period photos showing left sleeve wear of SSI both before and after 1950. Link here and scroll down to see representative samples of how it was done (see post #s 124, 127, 129, 134, 135, and 137).

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Here are some more photographs.

This is from the collection of a Col. Vincent J. Donahue. He's in most of the pictures. The Colonel I am trying to ID with this topic was in with this picture lot and since he didn't have a name written on the back of the photo I was trying to find one.

 

I can't read the name on the reverse of this photo with Col. Donahue meeting with another Colonel:

post-22-0-73796400-1402597817.jpg

post-22-0-52589400-1402597820.jpg

post-22-0-87214700-1402597822.jpg

post-22-0-59053900-1402597825.jpg

post-22-0-83158800-1402597827.jpg

post-22-0-88319000-1402597829.jpg

post-22-0-82407200-1402597855.jpg

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....I can't read the name on the reverse of this photo with Col. Donahue meeting with another Colonel:

How about "Bond" (the Colonel) and "Olsen" (behind the Colonel)?

A Colonel Charles R. Bond was assigned to Headquarters, Continental Air Defense Command at Ent AFB, Colo., in 1955, so there is no obvious explanation why he would be on Johnston Island AFB then, except that the base was a gas station and rest stop for transpacific passenger flights in those days. If Col. Bond was traveling to or from the Far East in July 1955 for any reason, he most likely would have landed on Johnston Island coming or going. Here is a picture of Bond as a major or lieutenant colonel during WWII. According the the 1948 Army and Air Force Register, Bond was promoted to colonel in January 1944, and no other "Bond" or "Olsen" in the 1948 Register fits the bill to be a colonel on active duty in 1955. Judge for yourself if this is the same man.

post-1963-1285630698.jpg

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Here are some more photographs.

This is from the collection of a Col. Vincent J. Donahue. He's in most of the pictures. The Colonel I am trying to ID with this topic was in with this picture lot and since he didn't have a name written on the back of the photo I was trying to find one.

Sure looks like Dorothy Lamour standing with the Col. or has someone already mentioned that?

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