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Show your WWI Studio Photographs


Jeffrey Magut
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Picked up this image at a show yesterday, my only 'score' but I think it was a good one. The collar disc is 4th Infantry, C or G company. Not sure it that is an early 3rd Division patch or what? There are 2 O/S chevrons and with the metal star above, the fourragere, what I think is a DSC ribbon and one of the oddball Inter-allied medals. I will try to post some closeups later on, enjoy,

Mark

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Thanks for posting this one. It's a great photo documenting a rare variation of the 3rd Division patch.

I had a similar patched image I sold on eBay not too long ago. Different guy, but definitely same patch. However, my triangle was pointing up.

I remember my picture very well because nobody could figure that patch out; it was all pure speculation.

Now with your post, the mystery is finally solved. Thanks!

 

- Chuck

 

PS My pic was identified to a Dominic Paquilla

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Chuck, glad to solve some mystery. Here is a closeup shot of the patch, ribbons, stripes and star on sleeve. I think, looking at the disc he was in Company G, 4th Infantry. Mark

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Picked up this image at a show yesterday, my only 'score' but I think it was a good one. The collar disc is 4th Infantry, C or G company. Not sure it that is an early 3rd Division patch or what? There are 2 O/S chevrons and with the metal star above, the fourragere, what I think is a DSC ribbon and one of the oddball Inter-allied medals. I will try to post some closeups later on, enjoy,

Mark

 

 

Where did this image originate?

 

I believe it is likely a Rainbow Division variation. Notice the 3 distinct tones/colors on the patch....

 

...and, the 4th Ohio Infantry became the nucleus of the 166th Infantry.

....the 4th Alabama Infantry became the 167th Infantry....

 

My money's on 42d Division.

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Where did this image originate?

 

I believe it is likely a Rainbow Division variation. Notice the 3 distinct tones/colors on the patch....

 

...and, the 4th Ohio Infantry became the nucleus of the 166th Infantry.

....the 4th Alabama Infantry became the 167th Infantry....

 

My money's on 42d Division.

 

Thoughts on the CdG Fourragere? The 3rd Division received, I don't believe any of the 42nd's Regiments did?

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I always thought that variation was blue/white/red, which would explain the different tones. One of those things I read somewhere on here, but can't find the source now, dang it...

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I picked up the image at a very small show last weekend in New Lenox, Illinois-near my hometown of Joliet. The image is 6.5" x 5". I am a novice when it comes to WWI items but I would imagine that the collar brass of the 4th (Ohio/Alabama) would have been replaced with the 166/167th by the time they got overseas, again, I will defer to the experts. Wish I knew more but there is no name on the back, I just thought it was a great WWI doughboy photo.

Mark

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world war I nerd

On top are three examples of the the WW I 3rd Division insignia variant ... none of which are composed of horizontal stripes. However, the placement of the colors are different on each example. From left to right: going clockwise, the colors are blue,red & white - red, white & blue - and blue - white & red.

 

Below (all in black & white) from left to right, is a 42nd Division "Rainbow" insignia composed of red, yellow & blue arcs, followed by an enlarged image of the insignia that began this post, whose shades of gray closely mirror the shades of gray seen in the 42nd Division insignia. This in turn, is followed by one of the 3rd Division variants whose shades of gray, if rearranged from blue, red & white to red, white & blue (which I believe may have been the correct order) would also match the shades of gray seen in the Rainbow insignia.

 

However, the fact that the insignia in question was composed of horizontal stripes rather than being divided into three sectors, like the 3rd Division insignias, suggests that it may be a variant of the 42nd Division's Rainbow design.

 

But then again it could be a variation of the 3rd Division variant made with stripes as opposed to sectors??? Therefore without further research it could go either way ...

 

Terrific work, I solved nothing.

 

Whether it 3rd Division or 42nd Division, it's still a wonderful image of a WW I American Doughboy.

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I picked up the image at a very small show last weekend in New Lenox, Illinois-near my hometown of Joliet. The image is 6.5" x 5". I am a novice when it comes to WWI items but I would imagine that the collar brass of the 4th (Ohio/Alabama) would have been replaced with the 166/167th by the time they got overseas, again, I will defer to the experts. Wish I knew more but there is no name on the back, I just thought it was a great WWI doughboy photo.

Mark

 

It would be much more common for the disks to be replaced...but not unheard of.

 

I have owned two 166th jackets that retained "Ohio" collar disks...

 

Nice image. Maybe there's a comparable ID'd view out there somewhere.....

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Thoughts on the CdG Fourragere? The 3rd Division received, I don't believe any of the 42nd's Regiments did?

 

As far as I can tell, TWO Company C, 4th Infantry Regiment guy's received the DSC:

 

Joseph Scialabba, killed in action. So not him, for sure. This photo is post 1918.

PFC Frank Walsh. Hometown was Benkelman, Nebraska. Frank lived until 1982. POSSIBLE

 

That's assuming that is a "C" on his collar disc and not a "G". There were several Company G guys who received the DSC.

 

GREAT image, BTW. Thank you SO much for posting.

 

JAG

 

 

 

 

 

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Luckily, I found these old scans of the portraits I used to own which shows the same unusual patch. From what I recall, that close-up wasn't clear enough to be certain if there was a Co./Rgt designation on the infantry collar disc.

 

At least it's clear enough to see he's wearing one of those Inter-Allied Victory medal ribbons.

 

As I mentioned before, mine had a name scribbled on back..."Dominic Paquilla"(sic). I don't have this portrait any more, so I can't post the high resolution scan.

 

-Chuck

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Before finding this portrait, If I had come across the uniform this guy is wearing, I would have hesitated to add it to my collection----I have never seen a double-patched service coat with 38th Division and 36th Division patches but here it is...man, in this hobby, never say never....

 

Al

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Before finding this portrait, If I had come across the uniform this guy is wearing, I would have hesitated to add it to my collection----I have never seen a double-patched service coat with 38th Division and 36th Division patches but here it is...man, in this hobby, never say never....

 

Al

WOW! Now that's a head scratcher. What is the collar insignia? Maybe a civilian service organization?
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WOW! Now that's a head scratcher. What is the collar insignia? Maybe a civilian service organization?

Erick---could be--I can't get a clear enough look at it to tell---but with this guy and his unique combo of patches, it could be anything...I'm just not sure I trust him to follow any uniform regulations...

Al

 

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Before finding this portrait, If I had come across the uniform this guy is wearing, I would have hesitated to add it to my collection----I have never seen a double-patched service coat with 38th Division and 36th Division patches but here it is...man, in this hobby, never say never....

 

Al

 

Wow. I concur. I would have written off that tunic as put together by some kid who didn't know better!

 

Maybe that is the same case here, with the kid just having served his time in the AEF!

 

Great find, Al. Just don't know what to say...what a head-shaker.

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Excellent point, WWI Nerd. What IS the deal with that? I know Navy guys did that (sew service chevrons upside down) to their uniforms, but I don't remember hearing or seeing it done by the AEF/AFG Army.

 

I'm really enjoying the latest batch of posts (JAG - that nurse posing with her bike inside a studio was very cool...and Al, your double patched Doughboy was certainly a head-turner).

 

Since we're on the topic of absurd placement of insignia, what do you guys say to this 322nd AS studio portrait? The 322nd never made it overseas, being formed in February 1918 and disbanded a year later at Kelly Field, TX.

 

The regs say this aero squadron rating should be on the right arm, not the left as seen in my pic. I've been searching my references for any 'allowances', but have yet to turn anything up.

 

I have also seen EM aviator wings being worn on the left side when they should be on the right shoulder. Mind you, all of this is going on Stateside where it's been argued they followed the regs to the "T". Apparently not...

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world war I nerd

Chuck,

 

It looks as if your guy is wearing the squadron insignia like it's a rank chevron ... midway between the elbow & shoulder. I do believe that the regs called for the top of the squadron insignia to be touching the shoulder seam like AEF divisional insignia. He does however, have the insignia on the correct sleeve, i.e. the left.

 

In respect to rank chevrons, until May of 1918, regulations stipulated that they were to be worn on both sleeves. In order to conserve wool, in May,orders were issued stating that rank chevrons were to be worn only on the right hand sleeve, not both sleeves.

 

I think the placement confusion depended on whether the enlisted men thought the squadron patch was an chevron or a shoulder insignia. This is likely why we see them riding high on the shoulder and further down the sleeve, just above the elbow.

 

This may also be the reason why they sometimes appear on the right sleeve per the post-May 1918 NCO chevron regs & sometimes on the left shoulder per the regs governing shoulder insignia & sometimes on both sleeves, per the pre-May 1918 NCO chevron regs.

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I am sure most people saw this one when it was offered but thought I would post it here for reference. Only the second photo of the 369th SSI in wear that I have seen.

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I am sure most people saw this one when it was offered but thought I would post it here for reference. Only the second photo of the 369th SSI in wear that I have seen.

YOUCH! this is a kick-back, straight-up, Hissin' cobra dynamite image. :)

 

Nice to have a record of it! Thanks, Eric.

 

JAG

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world war I nerd

John, I think you meant rattlesnake as in "Black Rattlers" one of the 15th New York N.G. Infantry / 369th Infantry Regiment's nicknames.

 

Does anyone know what the official colors of the "Black Rattler" shoulder insignia were?

 

I've seen the snake in white, green & bullion, sometimes with a pink tongue & rattle, typically on a black background.

 

An illustration of the insignia in a may 1919 newspaper spread about AEF insignia depicted an all white, coiled rattlesnake with a pink tongue on a brown backing.

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