Ramsey 1940's weekend RAF UPWOOD

[FAAA]

Another cracking FAAA event at Ramsey. Great turn out and an additional impression to add to the group’s portfolio with Army Nurses re-rolling as American Red Cross.

 

Show was excellent, run well and packed with good friendly groups. Weather held with two good days of Sunshine, bringing in many hundreds of people.

 

First event for the group in the 2nd Armoured Division, 17th Armoured Engineer role.

 

Full report to follow

 

Lee

 

 

 

 

 

[Sabrejet]

Cool pics! Looks like a great day out. Well done!

 

Sabrejet :thumbsup:

[Mr. Standfast]

Looks like a lot of fun! I never could resist those old jeeps either...

[FAAA]

The First Allied Airborne Associations American Red Cross section raised £100 for Help For Heros at the Ramsey Event.

 

The FAAA/ARC would like to thank all who donated in return for Tea and Coffee and Bob’s tasty Doughnuts.

 

This was the first time the Army Nurses have re-rolled and carried out ARC in support of an FAAA display and all are pleased with how the first attempt went. All food provided by the “Doughnut Dug Out” was prepared using original recipes and cooked on an authentic cooker.

 

Monies raised will kick start the groups Help For Heros sponsored march donations. The March will take place in October where the FAAA troops will represent the 327th Glider Infantry Regiment and the girls of the Army Nurses the 818th Medical Air Evacuation Sqn .

 

Lee

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FAAA]

POST EVENT REPORT

 

RAMSEY 1940’s WEEKEND

 

Well yet another cracking event for us. This event has been going a number of years and has been attended by the group in small numbers, sometimes undertaking a small display and some time just with a vehicle or two, this year it was nominated as the August main event and the group undertook a larger display. Unfortunately August is not normally a good display month due to Holidays and school holidays, however all things considered it was again a good turnout from troops of the FAAA.

 

This event the group was designated an Armoured impression and was based around the groups halftrack support. This time the unit represented was the 17th Armoured Engineer Battalion of the US 2nd Armoured Division.

 

Like most major events deployment started out on the Friday morning with an advance party of Military vehicles carrying stores and rations with the aim of arriving at the venue opening time to claim the groups display area and set out the location. The trip of 60 or so miles was uneventful and quite a nice drive in the summer sunshine, although it was slow going as the Dodge WC51 was carrying over half of the display gear and pulling a fully loaded trailer.

 

One element of the advance party gets ready to role

 

By mid to late afternoon on the Friday the advance party were on location and the Mess hall, Battalion Aid Post and command post tentage was up and in operation, all that remained to arrive was the jeep jockeys and Armour which was due to arrive early morning on the Saturday.

 

Battalion Aid Post set up

 

Headquarters Company location

 

At 0800hrs while the remainder of the team prepared the final touches to the display the command element in one of the jeeps headed for the old guard room at the entrance to the Airfield to meet the low loaded half track.

 

Headquarters Jeep waits to RV with half track outside the old main gate guard room

 

 

 

Half track arrives dead on 0800hrs and unloads at the support vehicle park

[FAAA]

The Armour arrived dead on time and once unloaded headed across the airfield to the 17th Engineers marshalling area. Shortly after the remaining jeeps from the Battalions Recce Section arrived and took up position on the display.

All vehicles were now accounted for and running, the previous afternoon the Dodge Weapons Carrier had developed a fuel blockage and had to be towed by a neighbouring groups Dodge 6x6 back to our base location, but this had now been cleared and was running well.

 

 

 

With all troops now consolidated it was time for the first meal of the day and boy was it welcome.

 

 

The remainder of the morning saw the group representing its chosen unit within the holding and assembly area prior to Op Cobra scenario. Basically preparing vehicles and sitting around the units Red Cross Doughnut Dugout, the time frame being post invasion and just pre- Op Cobra and the Normandy Breakout! Late July 1944.

 

 

 

 

 

[FAAA]

While troops relaxed at the Doughnut Dugout the Battalion Aid Post prepared for morning sick call.

 

Capt "Doc" Bunting contemplates the combat ahead

 

Corpman Matt Nott prepares his aid post

 

The day was an interesting first day of the event, the weather held and we were visited by many members of the public. On the Saturday evening we were to take part in the opening of the dance by performing a Sunset Parade in the Hanger. Some rehearsal was required for this and this was carried out on the display much to the amusement of the public.

 

Late afternoon the public left the Airfield and we prepared for the evening task. For this we were to re-role as Airborne and the 508th Parachute Infantry Regiment Honor Guard.

 

At quarter to eight the Color Party and Honor Guard marched into the hanger.

 

 

Starting the dances off, (we have done this a few times now) is always a tricky one to do in regards to Honor Guards, realistically people are more interested in getting on the Dance floor than watching a handful of re-enactors prance around in spit shine Jump boots, shiny buttons and flags flying, or so we thought, it has to be said all attending the dance and there was we are told getting on for 700 people in the Hanger, almost to a man/woman stood up and were silent throughout the ceremony. It was heartening and humbling to parade before them.

 

Our part in the evening dance was but a small one, as we marched off the dance got underway, we however headed back to base camp for our late evening meal of Bratwurst and mash and Onion Gravy, another outstanding meal produced by Bob the Unit Cook, who not half an hour before was a full bird Colonel taking the salute and the Sunset Parade, oh the magic of re-enacting.

 

Most of our troops who were parading had not done this type of ceremony before and with us were two British Troops from the 21st Army Group Military Police Living History group who were undertaking flag orderly duties and lowering the British National Flag. An outstanding achievement by all involved.

 

The rest of the evening was a joy, just sitting around the base camp with a few bottles. Later in the evening we were visited by friends from other groups and a swell night was had by all. We turned in during the early hours of Sunday morning, just in time to see but not feel the first drops of rain.

 

The night was indeed a wet one, but all awoke on Sunday to a gorgeous sun rise, a great start to the day.

 

Before long troops were up and preparing for the day, originating from the field kitchen the smell of breakfast wafted through the camp, oh what a beautiful morning.

 

 

 

 

Breakfast is served

[FAAA]

The units main task was to be ready for the public at opening time and to take part in the Drum head Memorial service in the Hanger. For this we would represent the 17th AEB with the colors marching at the head of the re-enactors contingent, an honour indeed.

 

 

 

FAAA Troops fall in for the memorial service

[FAAA]

On returning from the parade the troops mounted up on Half Track and Recon Jeeps and headed out to the Tank track in the far field. This area was designated for public tank rides (432 APC) however the outfit providing this kindly let us use the area and wow what a buzz we had. This was the first time many had travelled in the M3, let alone at speed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This was really an outstanding event that over the years has just got better. It was a joy to be part of it in a bigger way than we have in the past and working alongside other great groups to make it all happen was very gratifying.

 

Well done to all who organised it and thanks to all FAAA members who supported the group over the weekend.

 

Lee Bowden

Group Coordinator

[Johan Willaert]

Nice one, Lee...

 

However some remarks about the vehicle bumper markings (as I know you want your impression to be as perfect as can be....

 

I see two Jeep marked 2/\17E R-4 and R-5... which would mean that the 17EngrBn would have had a Reconnaissance Squadron....

This was not the case.

An Armored Engineer Bn had a Reconnaissance Section which was part of the Bn Headquarters Company. They would have had 4 Jeeps and since the third element of the marking indicates the COMPANY level, correct markings would have to be

 

2/\17E HQ-(vehicle number)

 

just like your Halftrack...

 

On a side-note the HQ&HQ Company of an Armored Engineer Bn only had three HT and they were all in the Command Section of the Bn...

 

There was one other HT in each HQ Section of the Companies (2/\17E A-2 or B-2 or C-2) and only the first platoon of each Company had three more HT, the other Companies being in GMC trucks...

 

Info above from FM17-45 The Armored Engineer Bn, dated 15 June 1944, pages 4 & 5

[FAAA]

Nice one, Lee...

 

However some remarks about the vehicle bumper markings (as I know you want your impression to be as perfect as can be....

 

I see two Jeep marked 2/\17E R-4 and R-5... which would mean that the 17EngrBn would have had a Reconnaissance Squadron....

This was not the case.

An Armored Engineer Bn had a Reconnaissance Section which was part of the Bn Headquarters Company. They would have had 4 Jeeps and since the third element of the marking indicates the COMPANY level, correct markings would have to be

 

2/\17E HQ-(vehicle number)

 

just like your Halftrack...

 

On a side-note the HQ&HQ Company of an Armored Engineer Bn only had three HT and they were all in the Command Section of the Bn...

 

There was one other HT in each HQ Section of the Companies (2/\17E A-2 or B-2 or C-2) and only the first platoon of each Company had three more HT, the other Companies being in GMC trucks...

 

Info above from FM17-45 The Armored Engineer Bn, dated 15 June 1944, pages 4 & 5

 

 

Hi Johan

 

Thanks for the impute mate. In part I agree with your findings as I have studied TOE's of many units and have even been accused of using them too rigidly would you believe.

 

The part of the bumber code we are talking about is indeed the correct area for the Company Squadron and Battery codes, however it is know this last part of the code has been used down to platoon level in regards to specialist units. A good indication of this is the use of HW for heavy weapons when identifying a Heavy weapons platoon of Headquarters Company as well as MR to indicate the Mortar Platoon, neither of these sub units were Company size, but came under Headquarters Company but as sub units. In regards to Airborne in the case of the 82nd Recon Platoon the platoon although directly under Division had their company code as R-and number of vehicle, but they were only a re-enforced platoon size organisation.

 

The numbering and correct positioning of Army Corp, Regimental and Company codes is a mine field and I for one am always learning and just when you think you have it a picture turns up to prove it all wrong.

 

Within Headquarters company of an Armoured Engineer Battalion there were approx 47 vehicles from the 6 sub units that made up the Company, thats a lot of HQ marked vehicles. As incorrect as it may now prove to be, the 4 jeeps of the Recce Section were marked up Recce using the R to indicate its sub unit role. Although I would love to find a picture of the Jeeps of the Battalions Recce Section to confirm correct markings I am unlikely to do so.

 

On the same subject but in regards to 41st Armoured Infantry, our next main event role will be an 81mm Mortar section, the Mortar Platoon also came under the Battalions Headquarters Companies, did they also adopt a HQ prefix as the last part of their Bumper Code or MR to indicate a Mortar sub unit. In the 41st there were 6 sub units making up the HQ Company with approx 28 vehicles, again a lot of vehicles carrying a HQ prefix with nothing to indicate sub unit roles. Also as the 41st was a regiment size units what if anything identified the other Battalions Headquarters Company’s vehicles order of march numbers.

 

Will follow up any additional intel via FM17-45 The Armored Engineer Bn, dated 15 June 1944

 

All good stuff

 

Regards

 

Lee

[FAAA]

Further to the above, in the hope of getting things as near as possible in regards to authenticity the references to the last set of codes, the Company Codes can be very confusing and quite a grey area. In all references I have seen in regards to these codes they are referred to Company codes and were used to identify also independent companies and their role.

 

In our next role as a Mortar platoon it clearly states the letter MR for Mortars is available, however when ever did Mortars deploy as a Mortar Company. I can only think of Chemical Mortar units, but they would have used the regiment or Battalion codes to identify themselves (dare I say it, using C for Chemical) and have HQ/Company codes to identify the sub unit and not MR as the last code prefix.

So that still leaves the following available in the last code prefix list and although they are listed as Company Codes some codes are listed for subunits that were defiantly not Company Size, i.e. MR for Mortars which in the case of the Battalions mortars in the 41st AIR are 3 tube platoons

 

Any pictures out here of the various Company codes (AM / AW / CON / DP / DS / GAM / GS / HW / MR / MT / PM / R / RP / TMP / ) in use.

 

Always open to advice and guidance.

 

Regards

 

Lee

[Johan Willaert]

The part of the bumber code we are talking about is indeed the correct area for the Company Squadron and Battery codes, however it is know this last part of the code has been used down to platoon level in regards to specialist units. A good indication of this is the use of HW for heavy weapons when identifying a Heavy weapons platoon of Headquarters Company as well as MR to indicate the Mortar Platoon, neither of these sub units were Company size, but came under Headquarters Company but as sub units. In regards to Airborne in the case of the 82nd Recon Platoon the platoon although directly under Division had their company code as R-and number of vehicle, but they were only a re-enforced platoon size organisation.

 

Hi Lee,

 

Yes, I would agree that the third group can actually indicate units of a smaller level than a Company, but IMO that is only when that small unit is directly attached to Divisional HQ level....

The Reconnaissance unit of the 17AEB wasn't even Platoon Level, it was a Section.

 

If I recall correctly the 82AB Armored Jeeps were marked

 

82AB-X R-vehicle number

 

because the Divisional Reconnaissance platoon was directly attached to Divisional HQ (hence the X)

But within the Regts of the division there would have been other reconnaissance units attached to the HQ Companies of the different regiments..

 

 

This is an interesting debate and can probably only be cleared with a WW2 picture clearly showing the markings...

 

JOhan

[med-dept]

Johan and Lee: is there any evidence of the 17th Armored Engineer Battalion wearing the two-piece Army Camouflaged HBT uniform?

 

Regards,

Ben.

[Johan Willaert]

Johan and Lee: is there any evidence of the 17th Armored Engineer Battalion wearing the two-piece Army Camouflaged HBT uniform?

 

Ben,

 

There a couple of pictures that show the HBT Camo in use and are captioned as being members of the 17AEB...

But there has been some debate if these are not really GIs of the 41AIR.

 

Personally I think all of the pictures were taken in the same unit, being 41AIR; but of course I could be wrong....

 

 

For Lee,

 

Chemical Warfare Units had a letter 'G' for vehicle markings, the C being used for Cavalry units (in the second group)...

It is of course a very difficult discussion especially since not all units adopted what AR prescribed...

As said, I would go with photographic evidence...

 

Johan

[glenm]

Ben,

 

There a couple of pictures that show the HBT Camo in use and are captioned as being members of the 17AEB...

But there has been some debate if these are not really GIs of the 41AIR.

 

Personally I think all of the pictures were taken in the same unit, being 41AIR; but of course I could be wrong....

For Lee,

 

Chemical Warfare Units had a letter 'G' for vehicle markings, the C being used for Cavalry units (in the second group)...

It is of course a very difficult discussion especially since not all units adopted what AR prescribed...

As said, I would go with photographic evidence...

 

Johan

 

Re the camo uniforms, that is the debate, yes, given the location of the photos and the unit there at that time being the 41st.

 

Bit of further research needed there perhaps.

 

Cheers,

Glen.

[med-dept]

Interesting. Thanks for the replies guys.

 

Regards,

Ben.

[Johan Willaert]

To illustrate the use of the letter 'R' in the third group (company-level)

 

In Mark Bando's 2AD in the Land of the Dead book he publishes a photo showing an amphibious Ford GPA Jeep marked as follows:

 

2/\-67/\ R-13

 

which makes perfect sense as that would have been the 13th vehicle of the Reconnaissance Company of the 67th Armored Regt of the 2AD...

 

Johan

[jumpwings]

Gawd, my head hurts, all those numbers and stuff...

 

Like the cooks hat Bob... :thumbsup: And those donuts look tasty...

[Black Devils]

Re the camo uniforms, that is the debate, yes, given the location of the photos and the unit there at that time being the 41st.

 

Bit of further research needed there perhaps.

 

Cheers,

Glen.

 

And of course some people don’t do anything without Research :thumbsup: