Airship Wing Question

[tigerfan]

I stopped at a local estate sale today and found a box of WWI - WWII insignia. The lot included a WWI aircorp collar disc, WWI US ins., WWII A.E.Co. Navigator wing, several other odds and ends and this airship wing. The airship wing is a well detailed thin strike and oddly has screwback posts. One nut is missing and both posts are slightly bent. It appears to be silver, looks like old tarnish and not forced aged but when looking through a loop, on the worn high points it appears that brass? is peering through. Now, I only paid $10.00 for the whole lot but after buying/selling wings for 30+ years I have my doubts. I have owned a few original airship wings over the years, all pinback, and at one time I owned the WWII display board that hung in the N.S. Meyer showroom. But I haven't come across a screwback post airship wing real or fake. Has anyone had any experiernce with this particular pattern?

 

[KASTAUFFER]

Roger

 

I am no "wing Expert" , but the little hairs on the back of my neck say it looks good.

 

Kurt

[tigerfan]

These two photos are not the best quality. But does show some of the wear on the high spots.

 

[CliffP]

I stopped at a local estate sale today and found a box of WWI - WWII insignia. The lot included a WWI aircorp collar disc, WWI US ins., WWII A.E.Co. Navigator wing, several other odds and ends and this airship wing. The airship wing is a well detailed thin strike and oddly has screwback posts. One nut is missing and both posts are slightly bent. It appears to be silver, looks like old tarnish and not forced aged but when looking through a loop, on the worn high points it appears that brass? is peering through. Now, I only paid $10.00 for the whole lot but after buying/selling wings for 30+ years I have my doubts. I have owned a few original airship wings over the years, all pinback, and at one time I owned the WWII display board that hung in the N.S. Meyer showroom. But I haven't come across a screwback post airship wing real or fake. Has anyone had any experiernce with this particular pattern?

 

Don't let the screw back posts throw you a curve; they were available in the 1920's. What you found is an Airship Pilot badge made by V.H. Blackinton, and don't worry about the lack of a hallmark because it should not have one.

 

Here's hoping you also made certain to get the name of the person for whom the estate sell had been held for since validation of the original owners name is traceable.

 

Great find!

 

Cliff

 

.

[John Cooper]

You just happend to stop by... I need to move into your neck of the woods!

 

John

[dave summers]

That is an outstanding wing, very nice.

D. Summers

[Sabrejet]

Certainly looks kosher to me. That kind of patina you can't fake. Great score Roger!

 

Ian :thumbsup:

[dave summers]

The fin at the rear of the airship sort of looks to be brass. Is it plating over brass or is it just the patina?

Dave

[CliffP]

The fin at the rear of the airship sort of looks to be brass. Is it plating over brass or is it just the patina?

Dave

Hi Dave,

 

I think you are correct that it is only the patina and if ever polished the badge would cast a brilliant silver sheen.

Cliff

[kiaiokalewa]

Here's an example of the same type of wing (dual screwpost) on an 21st Airship Group coat that I inherited recently from my best friends collection.  

 

After posting his collection of prewar wings that included four Airship wings and them getting the thumbs down, I assumed that this was probably the same case but now I'm not so sure.  I'll take the wing off again and take multiple detailed and clearer images of it front and back and them here.  From what I recalled the first time that I took them off they did not have a hallmark.  At that point I figured that it had the fate as the other mentioned earlier.

[pfrost]

you may want to review this thread.

 

 

[rathbonemuseum.com]

@kiaiokalewathe wings on your tunic show promise. You will have to carefully remove to inspect the back to be sure. But looks promising.

[kiaiokalewa]

I finally got back over to Oahu and took the wing off for better deal pixs.  It's an identical twin to the topic starter's wings.   In post #8 Dave asks, "Is it plating over brass?"  It very well may be judging from the one I took off the coat.  

 

[pfrost]

I think it compares well to the ones that are accepted as being vintage.  It doesn't give me any qualms about its age.  Of course that really isn't worth much more than my opinion. But I like it.

[rathbonemuseum.com]

Really nice early Blackinton airship. A winner in my opinion. Now the question is, do you know the owner of the coat?

[kiaiokalewa]

Aloha Patrick and thanks for directing me to your very informative write up on airships and their wings.  To be honest it was it was information over load but that is meant in a good way.  

 

There's a crazy backstory to this particular coat but I'll let forum member Allen H relate to that as I don't want to botch any of his details since it's a first hand account.  Afterwards I'll bring it full circle its pretty wild. 

 

 

 

[Allan H.]

10 hours ago, kiaiokalewa said:

There's a crazy backstory to this particular coat but I'll let forum member Allan H relate to that as I don't want to botch any of his details since it's a first-and account.  Afterwards I'll bring it full circle it's pretty wild. 

 

 

 

The story on the blouse is that I am quite certain that the blouse was in Eldon Leisure's collection for several decades. I recall seeing the blouse in great detail even though it has been almost fifty years since the first time I laid eyes on it.

 

The blouse has a matched pair of screw back 21st Airship DUIs on the shoulder straps. To me, the most compelling details of the blouse were that the wing was mounted on a black wool felt backing and that it was then attached to the blouse with screw posts being secured on the inside of the blouse by two large brass cap nuts. Eldon stated that the previous owner was the unit commander, but I have no recollection of the name.

 

It appears that the blouse went to Kiaiokalewa's good friend who owned it for a time before it ended up going to Hawaii.

 

The blouse really deserves its own thread.

 

Allan

[kiaiokalewa]

I'll take better detail pixs of the coat and other insignia on this coat.  Yes, there is a matching pair of screwback DI on shoulder straps and the other brass are pinback with open catches. 

 

My collecting bug happened at an earlier stage in my life as a preteen when I cracked into my dad's wartime footlocker loaded with insignia cigar boxes. It was love at first site, it was over and I was stunged. 

My parents would send me up to my grandparents in Colorado Springs every summer.  There I discovered Leisures Treasures and spent a number of hours in his shop loaded with all sorts of militaria abd at the dismay of my grandmother.   I think she got over it but I had a blast!

 

Elden was gruffy old looking guy back then and had to have been in his late 40s or early 50s by that time.

 

Jumping forward ten years I first met my buddy Marty at  Ft. DeRussy Museum's Military Shop of Hawaii.  Yes, once upon time it was where the current gift shop is located now.  The 1902  chevron collection I had was a really big hit for me and Marty and our friendship lasted forever until he recently passed away.

 

Jumping another 10 years, foray's to the mainland to hit up shows and conventions was in order for the two of us.  One year mid 90s. I finally made it over to a Great Western Show that Marty had always raved about.  The usual island suspects were their two include Doug and Marene Boyer (owners of Military Shop of Hawaii).  They anchored a rather good location spot at the entrance of one hall.  Not too, I spotted  Elden and his wife!  I couldn't believe it I hadn't seen them in nearly 25 years, they were obviously much older but from what I understood these vendors anchored their locations at the venue forever.  

There's no questions that Marty sinked his fangs into this airship coat as soon as Elden let it out into the wild!

For as long as I've know Marty, there are parts of the collection I never knew/remember him having to include a number of AAC related stuff I've been posting here on the forum. 

 

It's too bad I can't ask either Elden or Marty if they recall the name of the Major that once worn this uniform since i can't find anything written within.

 

 

[pfrost]

I half wonder if your guy is in this picture?

 

Of the nine pilots shown, I have IDs for about half.  These were part of a three photo grouping.  The guy in the center is wearing a 21st LTA group DU on this stetson hatI.  I suspect that one of these guys is the CO. There were some names and addresses on the back of the group photo, but only half were legible.

 

Front row, left to right:

 

Capt D W Rowan

Capt E N Berglund

Unknown

1st Lt C Eugene Silver

 

Second Row, left to right

(Cant read his first name but maybe Linton or Trenton(?) A York

2nd Lt Frank H White (since he is wearing glasses, he may not be a pilot)

Unknown

My guy (not named)

2nd Lt H C Finley

 

These photos are probably from the late 1920's early 30's.  If you were lucky you may find references to the CO (since your uniform is for a Major or LT Col--I can't really tell for sure).

 

Talked about these photos in this thread.  At the time I started this thread, I was just guessing at to the manufacturer.  Now, in hindsight, I think maybe 2 are of the Blackinton style. But there is no real way to know for sure.... BUT you may have a photo of your uniform here!  Wouldn't that be some cool beans

 

 

[kiaiokalewa]

Awesome 21st group photo.  I  had a closer look at the back row since they are wearing their coats I seriously doubt it thevteo officers to the left.  Their pocket flaps are totally different in shape and style.  I'm going to assume it not "my guy" but Finley does have the look of being around the block but I dont think he has the age to have participated in the Philippine Campaign.  Could be wrong but both them Captains certainly do look the correct vintage especially Berglund.  

[Usa1918]

Elden was one of my best friends and I was with him when he passed away

 

Keith

[Usa1918]

This was the grouping I got from him

[kiaiokalewa]

This is awesome!  Looks like Elden cornered the market on these heirloom Balloon Pilot uniforms in Colorado State.