have you ever seen a USN grey painted M1917 ?

[MAS36]

what happened to all the M1917's and M1917A1's used by the USN? Ive never seen a grey painted M1917 / M1917A1

 

like the one shown on Steve McQueen in the movie the Sand Pebbles

 

most of the helmets Ive seen are green or WW1 camo

[Bank Vault]

not sure, but keep in mind that hollywood does what hollywood wants, they make a movie and what a history book says don't matter, it becomes history, I wish I had a nickel for everytime I heard someone say "well it was in the movie".

[MAS36]

maybe they wore the regular green painted helmets? so any original M1917 / M1917A1 with the original finish could be USN ? since they didnt always paint their helmets battleship grey.

[Bank Vault]

I suppose, I'm not sure, a lot of your divisional markings were painted post war so I don't see why the navy helmets had to be painted grey, afterall everyone borrowed from everyone, there aren't many 1911 pistols that say Marine Corp on them, but there were a lot of Marines, thus, they borrowed from the Navy and Army.

[cwnorma]

I'm gonna start this with a mea culpa because I can't for the life of me remember where exactly I read it, It might have been Bashford Dean's book, but I don't have a copy here at the house to verify...

 

But I distinctly remember reading somewhere that all the helmets ordered by the USN for WW1 were the same olive drab as the Army.

 

But now I have to go find my source...

 

Chris

[Tenboremag]

Most photos you see of early Navy M1's seem to be painted OD. I am assuming that most of the M1917's were as well.

[Bob Hudson]

I think that Navy helmets painted gray was not even as common in WWII as we might believe. I have searched high and low for color photos of US Navy sailors wearing helmets in WWII, and the majority I have seen show OD helmets. Now as for WWI - or WWI helmets - I suspect color images of those are even harder to find. Most of the time when you see a photo of sailors wearing helmets it's gun crews. I found a WWI recruiting poster, but this gun crew had no helmets. I wonder if that was the common practice then? I'll bet it was:

 

 

I did find this photo showing a gun crew wearing the old helmets at the outbreak of WWII. Even though it's a black and white photo, the helmets do appear considerably darker than the gray of hull:

 

 

Here's an image of a Naval Landing Party that is captioned "Members of the USS Pittsburgh's landing force in a boat, off Shanghai, China, in 1927." This is from the website at http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~ca...nnsylvania.html - these look like they could be gray:

 

 

The stereotypical gray Navy helmet may be like the blue and gray canteens of the Civil War. I had read that several years ago an "expert" had published a book giving purported details of Civil War uniforms and gear. He had apparently written that Union's canteens were covered in blue cloth and the South's in gray. The person who was relaying this story said the author was off-base, that in fact canteens were covered in many different colors and the Union troops could have them in brown in even gray, but - because of that book - every reenactor since then has insisted on blue canteens (but apparently they are catching on to the truth since at least one maker of repro Federal Civil War canteens makes the covers in Sky Blue, Dark Blue, Gray Jean, Brown Jean, Cadet Gray, Confederate Gray, Richmond Gray, Gray Mix, Tuscaloosa Gray, Dark Gray, or Dark Butternut). It may well turn out (or we may never know for sure) that US Navy helmets in gray were the exception not the rule.

 

Anyone have any color photos of gun crews and landing parties pre-WWII?

[R Leonard]

Umm, I had a friend, he's passed on about three years ago, who was aboard USS Yorktown (CV 5) when she was abandoned on 4 June 42. He saved his helmet, a 1917, I believe, and kept it all those years. It was grey.

 

Rich

[jjdevi1]

All,

 

I've seen them pop up occasionally from the WW2 era that were gray. Common sense dictates that the Navy would not of repainted them during WW1. However, when the WW1 shells were overhauled with the new liners, it would of made sense to repaint them at the same time. Personally, I have never seen a WW1 Navy helmet.

 

John

[robinb]

I bought this M1917A1 in 1972 for $3 at a flea market. It's Navy blue inside and out. No sign of OD anywhere. I have no idea what T.A.G.S. stands for. It's painted on both sides.

[MAS36]

I bought this M1917A1 in 1972 for $3 at a flea market. It's Navy blue inside and out. No sign of OD anywhere. I have no idea what T.A.G.S. stands for. It's painted on both sides.

 

interesting helmet

 

Ive never seen one painted in that color, I have seen a few painted white for civil defense

[Salvage Sailor]

Aloha Everyone,

 

I was reading through the old posts and this one reminded me that I sold an unidentified helmet of this type on Ebay several years ago. The description I posted is below with a photo of the helmet shell (there was no liner when I found it).

 

Feel free to tear up my description, and correct any mistakes as I've always wondered when it was made and by whom. I think it sold for around $20 in 2003.

 

USN USMC M1917A1 DOUGHBOY HELMET

Shell only – No Suspension or Liner

 

This helmet is a bit of a mystery to me, so I’ll just list the facts as I know them. I found this in an old barracks building being demolished on the Pearl Harbor Naval Station years ago. It appears to be a M1917A1 early WWII helmet, probably USN or USMC issue. I believe it is Navy Issue since it has a smooth finish, unlike the sand/cork finishes on converted WWI M1917 US Army Helmets of this era.

 

It has swivel bales, but they are stamped, not riveted like a M1917 or a conversion would be, so it’s probably an original M1917A1 manufactured between 1936 & 1940. The manufacturing marks on the inside rim read ‘VB56 2 SLN’ which I have been unable to identify. I added the chinstrap in the 70’s and it is not original.

 

The condition of the helmet shell is very good, minor surface rust, with a good smooth paint finish inside and out. The Paint Color is a Sun-Faded Khaki. I do not have a solid ID on this helmet so Please examine the photos and decide for yourself prior to placing your bid.

[BOLO]

hi Salvage Sailor

 

thats a post war DUTCH CIVIL DEFENSE helmet shell made in 1956 [not US issue]

[Salvage Sailor]

hi Salvage Sailor

 

thats a post war DUTCH CIVIL DEFENSE helmet shell made in 1956 [not US issue]

 

 

Thanks!

 

See, I had no clue where this came from. Probably someones junk they left laying around.

[Bob Hudson]

hi Salvage Sailor

 

thats a post war DUTCH CIVIL DEFENSE helmet shell made in 1956 [not US issue]

 

 

There's one on ebay now: http://cgi.ebay.com/British-Air-raid%2Fmil...emZ170187124208 - it is marked VB56 6SLN and they call it "British." Another one is listed with the VB56 stamp: http://cgi.ebay.com/Post-War-Belgium-Helme...emZ370015678627 - they call that one "Belgian." And someone from the Netherlands has one listed http://cgi.ebay.nl/British-MkII-style-Dutc...emZ290188816362 - they correctly call it a "British MkII style Dutch helmet."

 

The VB number and arrowhead chinstrap fastener the key clues to the Dutch origin.

[sigsaye]

There's one on ebay now: http://cgi.ebay.com/British-Air-raid%2Fmil...emZ170187124208 - it is marked VB56 6SLN and they call it "British." Another one is listed with the VB56 stamp: http://cgi.ebay.com/Post-War-Belgium-Helme...emZ370015678627 - they call that one "Belgian." And someone from the Netherlands has one listed http://cgi.ebay.nl/British-MkII-style-Dutc...emZ290188816362 - they correctly call it a "British MkII style Dutch helmet."

 

The VB number and arrowhead chinstrap fastener the key clues to the Dutch origin.

 

Just a bit of personal experience with the Navy and helmets. We received helmets fresh from warehouses that had never been issued, brand new (M-1s or variants there of). More often as not, we just left most of them alone in original colors. Some, such as those put in Damage Control Repair Lockers would be painted red. Many had some sort of marking painted on them to designate which battle station they belonged to.

 

Most were kept in racks out on deck exposed to the weather and after about a year got pretty rough looking, and would bet sanded down and repainted. Since OD is not a common color on Navy ships, they ended up any one of several shades of gray.

 

Aditionally, we would also get helmets from decommissioned ships, and would sand and paint them to clean them up and remark them.

 

I don't remember ever seeing anything in writing during my 26 years about painting helmets any specific color (other than red for DC), it just happened over the course of the life of a helmet in the Navy. I remember taking one helmet down and it had seven coats of paint (plus primer), a base coat of OD, and then sucessive coats of Haze Gray and Deck Gray. This also applied to Talker helmets. We also routinely replaced chin straps, sweat bands and the webbing in the liners.

 

I would think that most helmets appearing in photos of WW 1 or WW 2 just had not been "in the Navy" long enough to get a coat of gray.

 

Just as I was retireing, we began receiving the "Fritz" helmets, and the painting started again.

 

Steve Hesson

[usmcraidergirl]

I have a couple gray WWII Navy pots that are ID'd but the rest of the ID'd ones I have (including 1917A1) are all olive drab. The photos I have from the 1920s also show olive drab. I don't believe I have any pics that are of other colors from that period. So, I think the assessment that most during the WWI and WWII period were OD.

 

The gray painted ones I have and have seen tend to trace back to one of two main outcomes: (1) it was for a person on smaller landing craft or certain station (like beach hospital) or (2) overall ship preference. Option #1 is interesting because those are the helmets that tended to be issued to individuals. These groups include aid stations, landing craft personnel, air crew, etc. The Navy loved (and still does) to color code the different units - especially through the use of overall paint color (i.e. gray versus OD) and the addition of colored dots or sequences of dots. If you look close enough at Navy pictures from d-day landings, you will even catch a glimpse of these dots on the top crown of the helmets - they are orange and come in a sequence of I believe 1 to 6 (painted as two rows of 3). If I get some time I'll try to find one online and post it here. Option #2 often tends to correlate with when the helmets got issued. I've noticed ships that got restocked tended to get boxes of OD ones and most crews didn't care to paint them (or perhaps didn't have the paint supply to do so?). However, it seems to me that ships built during the war years (particularly 1944) are often shown with helmet racks that appear to be full of dark battleship gray helmets.

 

I don't know if others have noticed, but the WWII M1s for the Navy are primarily a darker battleship gray. However, post-war painted pieces tend to be much lighter gray, particularly the Vietnam War and newer ones. Not that it is a rule or anything of that nature (as I still believe much was dictated by preference and availability). But, the ones I've traced or friends have traced via names or ship designations tend to show the gray got lighter as we go closer in time to the present. Talker helmets are a good example of this too! Anyone else noticed?

 

Just my random observations of looking at Navy stuff. I think definitely the subject requires further study indeed.

[BOLO]

heres a grey painted US Navy M1917A1 that was sold on ebay recently

[TLHSS]

My only example of a WWII navy gray with honest wear. Came from the estate of a 1st Marine Division corpman. Anchor and globe may be a replacement.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tim

[BOLO]

another unusual painted M1917 helmet possibly us navy? painted red and white

[BOLO]

has split rivets [british made]

[Richard]

Here's another Navy blue M1917A1 helmet. This one is in the collection of a friend. It's missing the cushion in de top of the helmet.