Gen. MacArthur's CIB

[Jack's Son]

This picture reminds me of the only time I met Omar Bradley, or was in his presents. We were in an elevator after a social affair the General attended. He looked much the same as in this picture. I remember the the feelings of Honor, and sadness. :salute:

[Wailuna]

More on Gen. Bradley's Combat Infantryman Badge, extracted from DA General Orders announcing the General's death on April 8, 1981 (this image is taken from a three page document, the red lines indicate where the deleted material was cropped out):

 

[88thcollector]

I am not shocked that he wore medals he did not earn, he certainly had a boundless ego. The most shocking thing in the article is the $500,000 payment, basically accepting a bribe to influence his later military decisions. That seems pretty hard to justify.

[Bluehawk]

I am not shocked that he wore medals he did not earn, he certainly had a boundless ego. The most shocking thing in the article is the $500,000 payment, basically accepting a bribe to influence his later military decisions. That seems pretty hard to justify.

Turns out his CIB was honorar and, so far as anyone knows, he never "wore" it in an official way on any uniform while in service. Looks like it gets added to the top of his rack for historical display purposes only long after the fact.

[kjones5452]

Adding/attaching an "honorary" CIB to anyone's uniform gives/leaves the wrong impression to the uneducated.

No matter who you are or what status you've attained.

[Wailuna]

....Here's another WWII General-with-CIB sighting. Major General Robert S. Beightler was the first and only commanding general of 37th Infantry Division during its active WWII service from October 15, 1940, to December 18, 1945...

And here is an image of the General Orders awarding "a Combat Infantry Badge" to Maj. Gen. Beightler (source: NARA):

[seanmc1114]

And here is an image of the General Orders awarding "a Combat Infantry Badge" to Maj. Gen. Beightler (source: NARA):

It's interesting that the orders indicate they were revoked a few months later. Maybe some clarification came down that the badge was not intended for general officers.

[Wailuna]

...Maybe some clarification came down that the badge was not intended for general officers.

Could be. War Department Circular 186 rescinded Section 1 of WD Circular 269, effective May 2, 1944.

[Bluehawk]

Adding/attaching an "honorary" CIB to anyone's uniform gives/leaves the wrong impression to the uneducated.

No matter who you are or what status you've attained.

I would agree ^ very much so. For myself, but not having been a General or Infantry of any sort, having it pinned on in a ceremonial manner might be okay - but I don't think I could leave it on the uniform after that.

[Wailuna]

And yet another General awarded the CIB:

 

[SpookyTeddyBear]

For me, I believe that some Generals might meet the requirements to be awarded the CIB.

MacArthur, Stilwell, Bradley, Dean, Eichelberger, etc., all were awarded their CIB's honorarily.

 

Note: I have seen some people posted that MacArthur was an Infantry officer. That is incorrect, he was only

in Infantry in the National Army. Officially, he was still an Engineer officer before his promotion to Brigadier General.

 

Note: MacArthur retired in 1937. throughout his WWII service, he was still a retired officer on Active Duty.

He was restored back to the Regular Army in 1948.

[patches]

Wailuna beat me to the punch by a year up to this point on this topic I seen no mention of General Dean's CIB, but here at the very end, I would like however to add an additionl Photo of Dean with his CIB on the very day it was awarded.

 

General Maxwell D. Taylor and General William F. Dean

 

Original caption:Ceremonies mark Gen. Dean's retirement. San Francisco. Army Chief of Staff Gen. Maxwell D. Taylor (right) places his hand on the shoulder of Major Gen. William F. Dean after presenting the hero of Taejon with the Combat Infantryman's badge during retirement ceremonies for General Dean at the Presido October 31. The badge is normally given only to infantrymen who have been in 30 days. Dean, holder of the medal of Honor, said winning the Badge was One of the greatest thrills of my life--- something I've always wanted Dean, 56, was 32 years of army service.

[SpookyTeddyBear]

Wailuna beat me to the punch by a year up to this point on this topic I seen no mention of General Dean's CIB, but here at the very end, I would like however to add an additionl Photo of Dean with his CIB on the very day it was awarded.

 

General Maxwell D. Taylor and General William F. Dean

 

Original caption:Ceremonies mark Gen. Dean's retirement. San Francisco. Army Chief of Staff Gen. Maxwell D. Taylor (right) places his hand on the shoulder of Major Gen. William F. Dean after presenting the hero of Taejon with the Combat Infantryman's badge during retirement ceremonies for General Dean at the Presido October 31. The badge is normally given only to infantrymen who have been in 30 days. Dean, holder of the medal of Honor, said winning the Badge was One of the greatest thrills of my life--- something I've always wanted Dean, 56, was 32 years of army service.

 

Oh sweet, thanks for the info, patches! :thumbsup:

[seanmc1114]

To me the concept of an "honorary" award of the CIB is the same as an honorary degree awarded by a college. It's a nice form of recognition, but nobody seriously believes the recipient met the same qualifications as someone who actually earned the equivalent degree by attending classes, doing research and writing papers.

[patches]

To me the concept of an "honorary" award of the CIB is the same as an honorary degree awarded by a college. It's a nice form of recognition, but nobody seriously believes the recipient met the same qualifications as someone who actually earned the equivalent degree by attending classes, doing research and writing papers.

 

I'll agree with that, but I would say that in the cases of Stillwel and Dean, the awards were for the most part warrented, perhaps even the CIB General Beightler receieved as CO of the Buckeye Division, but you are most certainly right in your very earlier observation, Why weren't alot more Combat Division COs and Assistant Divisional COs awarded CIB, I can think of several, like Norman Cota, Terry Allen, Teddy Roosevelt JR, MG Edwin D Patrick CO of the 6th Infantry Division KIA on Luzon in March 1945 to name a few, or Why Beightler and not Collins? Collins led the 25th Division in tough fighting in the Solomons too.

[Jack's Son]

I like what BOTH of you have to say! :thumbsup:

[MMA10mm]

I'd only add that if a General comes close to meeting the criteria of a CIB, I'd think an airborne division CG would do so. They parachute in, typically surrounded upon deployment, etc. If any general shares the hardships of a front-line infantryman, it would be in the airborne.

 

Without making any moral judgements or implications, does the concept of awarding retired generals CIBs strike anyone else as similar to Donitz awarding Goering the Submarine Badge in diamonds, or Goering reciprocating to Donitz with the pilot/observer badge with diamonds?

 

Basically, big shots awarding coveted badges to each other that they weren't eligible for. (Lots of other differences in these 2 situations, but at its root that's about the sum of it.)

[SpookyTeddyBear]

I'd only add that if a General comes close to meeting the criteria of a CIB, I'd think an airborne division CG would do so. They parachute in, typically surrounded upon deployment, etc. If any general shares the hardships of a front-line infantryman, it would be in the airborne.

 

Without making any moral judgements or implications, does the concept of awarding retired generals CIBs strike anyone else as similar to Donitz awarding Goering the Submarine Badge in diamonds, or Goering reciprocating to Donitz with the pilot/observer badge with diamonds?

 

Basically, big shots awarding coveted badges to each other that they weren't eligible for. (Lots of other differences in these 2 situations, but at its root that's about the sum of it.)

 

I like what you said there & agree with you, MMA10mm.

[Justin B.]

MacArthur's commands in WW2 and Korea did have something of a reputation as "decoration machines." The Navy had some pretty strong disagreements with his awards practices in the Southwest Pacific Area. Navy officer/congressman Lyndon Johnson's Silver Star was a MacArthur-originated award that some have questioned over the years. And MacArthur's own DFC: Has there ever been another awarded to a passenger on a staff transport?

 

But if rules have been stretched in other cases to award CIBs to general officers, MacArthur's service in WW1 is probably worth considering. He requested his temporary promotion be in Infantry rather than Engineers, and even though he was a division staff officer he was often at the front lines, was under fire on a number of occasions and by all accounts I've read acquitted himself well.

 

Justin B.

[seanmc1114]

But if rules have been stretched in other cases to award CIBs to general officers, MacArthur's service in WW1 is probably worth considering. He requested his temporary promotion be in Infantry rather than Engineers, and even though he was a division staff officer he was often at the front lines, was under fire on a number of occasions and by all accounts I've read acquitted himself well.

 

Justin B.

Even where exceptions were made in awarding the CIB to general officers (Stillwell and Dean), MacArthur's service in WWI is still irrelevant. The CIB is only retroactive to December 7, 1941 under any circumstances. No One was awarded a CIB for WWI service, not even true combat infantrymen.

 

I have nothing but respect for the tremendous job that MacArthur did for his country through three wars and decades of service. He was truly a hero. But having said that, I don't think he deserved a CIB, even an honorary one. I also don't think he deserved the Medal Of Honor he received for WWII, or his WWII Distinguished Service Cross, or the Distinguished Flying Cross he received in Korea, or an Air Medal or a Bronze Star. I think in each case, his receipt of those medals cheapened them for those who truly deserved them.

 

Here is a link with the citations for his major gallantry awards:

 

http://militarytimes.com/citations-medals-...recipientid=676

[Justin B.]

^ Personally, I agree. But somebody in authority made the decision to bend the rules for MacArthur, and his WW1 record comes the closest to a reasonable justification it as anything I can think of.

 

Justin B.

[Bluehawk]

As a side note, it is interesting to me that throughout world military history some of the highest in rank and position have NOT awarded themselves or engineered to award themselves or been awarded on meager criteria their nation's most prestigious recognitions.

 

On the other hand, some have pinned on everything possible and created some new ones just for themselves.

 

MacArthur deserved recognition for long and mostly (who among us could do as well or better?) faithful effective service.

 

The CIB arose in my thoughts only because I know how much it means, how special it is, to a grunt.

[Justin B.]

As a side note, it is interesting to me that throughout world military history some of the highest in rank and position have NOT awarded themselves or engineered to award themselves or been awarded on meager criteria their nation's most prestigious recognitions.

 

On the other hand, some have pinned on everything possible and created some new ones just for themselves.

 

MacArthur was kind of funny that way. Before WW2 and early in the war if he wore "Class A" he had ribbons crowding up to his shoulder loops. He also created the General Staff ID badge which looked something like the star of an order. But at some point in the war he saw a press picture of Eisenhower not wearing his ribbons and apparently decided to "out-understate" Ike. After that, everything came off!

 

Justin B.

[Mr-X]

MacArthur was kind of funny that way. Before WW2 and early in the war if he wore "Class A" he had ribbons crowding up to his shoulder loops. He also created the General Staff ID badge which looked something like the star of an order. But at some point in the war he saw a press picture of Eisenhower not wearing his ribbons and apparently decided to "out-understate" Ike. After that, everything came off!

 

Justin B.

 

 

Out-understate, I love it.

[Wailuna]

...Out-understate, I love it.

And perhaps Ike learned the art of understatement from this past master of that art:

 

 

General Pershing is wearing ribbons from his campaign medals in this ca. 1922 picture, with the Indian Campaign medal in the number one position. In later years, Gen. Pershing typically wore a single ribbon (of the Distinguished Service Medal) on his service uniform.