Gen. MacArthur's CIB

[jlmudd]

I find it interesting in these threads on individuals wearing certain medals and badges (on this forum and elsewhere), that the term "earn" is used over and over. The only thing that soldiers "earn" is their pay. Everything else is awarded, including qualification badges (airborne, marksmanship, etc). True, there are objective criteria for certain things - achieve certain score on a rifle range and you "earn" - i.e. AWARDED - a badge; attend a school that qualifies you to perform a task - jump out of a plane in flight and you are AWARDED a parachutist badge.

 

Other things include a greater degree of subjectivity: as mentioned above, even with all other objective criteria met, the commander must recommend and a higher commander must approve AWARD of combat badges. Medals have even more subjectivity; there are virtually no objective criteria other than "while serving against an armed enemy" or "in a combat theater." It's all between the one recommending a medal and the commander approving it. As we have seen in the above discussion, typically the higher grades of the individuals involved, the higher the level of award.

 

Also recall the differences between "awards" and "decorations." Decorations typically are administratively assigned based upon essentially objective criteria - campaign medals and devices are the main type of these, among others.

 

Even rank is not "earned," but is conferred after a subjective assessment of past performance and future potential. Regardless of one's personal feelings, no one has ever earned stripes, bars, medals or badges; they may or may be DESERVED, but that's a different discussion.

 

Cheers!

[Dave]

Just checking MacArthur's Register listing, I did not know he was actually "Retired on Active Duty" during WW2!

 

Anyway, just checking on Andy's WW1 claim about him being a general in WW1...and yes, he was. He was promoted to BG National Army on 26 June 1918, and then was actually promoted to BG on 20 Jan 1920. Interestingly, he bypassed LTC and COL...he was a he was promoted to MAJ (US Army) on 11 Dec 1915, then was prmoted to COL (NA) on 5 Aug 1917...and then BG (NA) on 26 June 1918. He retired as a GEN on 31 Dec 1937.

 

Dave

[Huntzman]

Luis

 

I don't want to hijack this thread, and I apologize for any diversion, albeit temporarily.

 

If I offended you with the choice of the word "fled" I am sorry. I was born in 20+ years later, so I have no dog in this fight.

 

My words were meant to echo the sentiment that many felt at the time. It was after this period that I believe MacArthur got the nickname Dugout Doug. There was a lot of resentment of the men left on Bataan who felt they were "sacrificed" by Roosevelt and MacArthur. He was "Safe" in Australia being awarded the "MOH" while they were left to their own fate, and then he had the audacity to argue the awarding of the MOH to General Wainwright.

 

It's easy to say to the man in combat "there must be no thought of surrender" when you are not in the fight yourself.

 

Again, just my humble opinion.

 

Andrew

 

He did not fled. He was ordered out. This is a big, big difference.

 

Luis Ramos

[4STARCHRIS]

I find it interesting in these threads on individuals wearing certain medals and badges (on this forum and elsewhere), that the term "earn" is used over and over. The only thing that soldiers "earn" is their pay. Everything else is awarded, including qualification badges (airborne, marksmanship, etc). True, there are objective criteria for certain things - achieve certain score on a rifle range and you "earn" - i.e. AWARDED - a badge; attend a school that qualifies you to perform a task - jump out of a plane in flight and you are AWARDED a parachutist badge.

 

Other things include a greater degree of subjectivity: as mentioned above, even with all other objective criteria met, the commander must recommend and a higher commander must approve AWARD of combat badges. Medals have even more subjectivity; there are virtually no objective criteria other than "while serving against an armed enemy" or "in a combat theater." It's all between the one recommending a medal and the commander approving it. As we have seen in the above discussion, typically the higher grades of the individuals involved, the higher the level of award.

 

Also recall the differences between "awards" and "decorations." Decorations typically are administratively assigned based upon essentially objective criteria - campaign medals and devices are the main type of these, among others.

 

Even rank is not "earned," but is conferred after a subjective assessment of past performance and future potential. Regardless of one's personal feelings, no one has ever earned stripes, bars, medals or badges; they may or may be DESERVED, but that's a different discussion.

 

Cheers!

 

 

Ditto

4starchris

[Kadet]

Just checking MacArthur's Register listing, I did not know he was actually "Retired on Active Duty" during WW2!

 

Anyway, just checking on Andy's WW1 claim about him being a general in WW1...and yes, he was. He was promoted to BG National Army on 26 June 1918, and then was actually promoted to BG on 20 Jan 1920. Interestingly, he bypassed LTC and COL...he was a he was promoted to MAJ (US Army) on 11 Dec 1915, then was prmoted to COL (NA) on 5 Aug 1917...and then BG (NA) on 26 June 1918. He retired as a GEN on 31 Dec 1937.

 

Dave

 

 

..also interesting is that MacArthur was originally commissioned from West Point into the Corps of Engineers. At the time, this was seen as a fast track career path. He did his first tour in the Army working on engineering projects in the Midwest as I recall. He later transferred to the infantry. During WWI MacArthur served in the Rainbow Division (National Guard), first as Chief of Staff, then Brigade Commander and finally Commander. The National Guard appointment is how he rose up the promotion ladder so quickly...and was the source of great animosity from his peers. He was one of the few GOs allowed to keep his rank in the Regular Army after the war. He served as the Superintendent of West Point immediately after WWI, and is credited w/ modernizing the curriculum to reflect the Army's recent experience in France. MacArthur had served a full, and incredibly distinguished career before WWII even began. He retired as the Army Chief of Staff before the war (1937), and accepted a quasi-military, paid appointment as the leader of the Philippine Army. His service in the Philippines before the war had nothing to do w/ the US military...he was essentially a private employee of the Philippine government. When WWII began, he was brought back in to the US Army in what would now be called a "retired retained" status. He remained in this status until he was sacked by Truman in Korea.

[Kadet]

I've always liked this photo...an extremely young-looking and highly decorated General, taken in 1930...11 years before the start of WWII. When he assumed office in 1930, he was the youngest Chief of Staff in Army history.

 

For the medal collectors; MacArthur was responsible for the creation of both the Purple Heart and Silver Star medals as they exist today, originally designed to recognize WWI veterans for their service and sacrifice. He did this during his tenure as the Army Chief of Staff. MacArthur had been cited for personal gallantry and gassed in WWI, so was eligible for both of the new medals.

 

For anyone interested in the intertwined careers of Marshall, MacArthur and Eisenhower, I highly recommend this book:

 

http://hnn.us/articles/40306.html

 

The most popular MacArthur biography is "American Caesar" by the late William Manchester, a noted historian and decorated WWII combat Marine.

 

The best MacArthur biography is a massive three volume set. I'm away from my books, and the exact title escapes me...but it is superb, and pretty much the definitive work from a detail perspective.

[TLHSS]

"American Caesar" by William Manchester is one of my favorite reads (I enjoy most of Manchester's books ... especially "Goodbye Darkness", which IMO is a must read for USMC collectors / historians).

 

Another good MacArthur read is "Old Soldiers Never Die" by Geoffrey Perret. It presents a pretty balanced account of The General.

 

Here's my favorite photo of The General. This was taken in France after his promotion to Brigadier General. Love the "crusher cap", riding crop, and cigar .... from WWI accounts, other than the missing scarf you see him wear in WWI photos, this is how he dressed when "going over the top" with his troops. Never wore a helmet in combat

 

 

The man was not without his warts ... the Bonus Army incident, times when ego got in the way of facts which impacted battle (the invasion of the Philippines, the entry of the Chinese in Korea, etc). But in my 50+ years on this earth, I've not known or worked for a real leader that didn't have an ego or has made some questionable decisions ... it's all about balancing risk with reward, and the best leaders get the balance right most of the time ... never all of the time. And, IMO, history points to MacArthur getting the balance right most of the time.

 

Have a great holiday weekend .... Tim

[Kadet]

Another from WWI. BG MacArthur receiving an award from Pershing. He was a quite formidable looking figure

[flyer333555]

Luis...[sNIP!] It's easy to say to the man in combat "there must be no thought of surrender" when you are not in the fight yourself.

 

Again, just my humble opinion.

 

Andrew

 

Thank you for this response.

 

I do admit that many at the time did accuse him of fleeing. And it is difficult to counter that argument, especially if it comes from a Corregidor veteran. There have been many soldiers that even tho wounded stayed on the field despite orders to leave it... Some eventually sucumbing to their injuries.

 

Sgt Ruben Rivers, 761st Tank Battalion (Colored) is one of them... I know many of the readers can point to others.

 

It is very hard for any of us to say anything in that matter. Should Gen Macarthur have stayed to the end, aven after FDR's order?

 

Many will say it was better for the US that he chose to obey the order, given his extraordinary career...

 

It is easy for us to say "I would have stayed" but until we face that situation, we cannot ever be sure...

 

Luis Ramos

[Wailuna]

Here's another WWII General-with-CIB sighting. Major General Robert S. Beightler was the first and only commanding general of 37th Infantry Division during its active WWII service from October 15, 1940, to December 18, 1945. Although General Beightler was a member of the Ohio National Guard, he accepted a Regular Army commission after WWII and continued to serve on active duty until he was retired in 1953. This picture of General Beightler appears to have been taken rather later during his postwar service.

 

[Wailuna]

Here is Gen. MacArthur wearing his impressive array of ribbons early in WWII: In Australia, at Sydney Railway Station, July 22, 1942, with his chief of staff, Maj. Gen. Richard K. Sutherland at his side (source: State Library of Queensland). In addition any decorations Gen. MacArthur was awarded for his service during WWII and the Korean War, he would have been entitled to add 10 or so other service and campaign ribbons to his uniform (speaking of which, notice the custom cut his coat here, with 5 buttons).

 

[USMCRECON]

Hello,

 

I think it would have to do with his actions in WWI. He had a pretty incredible career in WWI, where he won some of his highest decorations. I know other officers wore CIB's based on their infantry experience in combat in WWI. SLA Marshal wore one based on his "battle experience " in WWI, of course he wasn't even in the infantry in WWI. Enlisted mule handler or something like it. I can't say how widespread the wearing of the CIB was by WWI vets during WWII, but some of them wear it, now official or unofficial I cannot say, but I think it would have been unofficial. Who was going to tell a 5 star general MacArthur what decorations he could wear.

 

Jon

Except that the CIB was not retroactive to WW-I, as far as I know.

 

there were several individuals who held positions senior to MacArthur. The Chief of Staff of the Army, by virtue of position, outranked any other officer in the Army. There was also a Secretary of the Army, a Secretary of War, and then the President who fired him.

[USMCRECON]

Here is Gen. MacArthur wearing his impressive array of ribbons early in WWII: In Australia, at Sydney Railway Station, July 22, 1942, with his chief of staff, Maj. Gen. Richard K. Sutherland at his side (source: State Library of Queensland). In addition any decorations Gen. MacArthur was awarded for his service during WWII and the Korean War, he would have been entitled to add 10 or so other service and campaign ribbons to his uniform (speaking of which, notice the custom cut his coat here, with 5 buttons).

 

Nice Air Force glove he's wearing on his left hand, too.

[USMCRECON]

Wearing unauthorized medals, decorations, etc was just one of MacArthur's many character flaws.

[Lee Ragan]

Wearing unauthorized medals, decorations, etc was just one of MacArthur's many character flaws.

 

Before we jump on the bandwagon to cast the General in a negative light, maybe a little reasearch would be in order. The Jan. - March 2011 issue of ASMIC's TRADING POST (page 29), has an article as to how, when and why General MacArthur was awarded the Combat Infantry Badge. The article was written by Mr. John E. Marks.

Here is the reason and why he was awarded the CIB. Quoting James W. Zobel, Archivist at the MacArthur Memorial Museum in Norfolk, Virginia, provides the rest of the answer: " It was given to him by General George Decker, Chief of Staff U.S. Army, as an honorary award at MacArthur's birthday party in 1961. Decker was G-3 for 6th Army under MacArthur in World War II and he secured the award for the General when he was 81. When we outfitted MacArthur's uniform in the 1980's we had the U.S. Army Office of Heraldry do it. They approved the placing of the CIB on the blouse we have on display."

This means MacArthur never actually "wore" a CIB.

[Dave]

Before we jump on the bandwagon to cast the General in a negative light, maybe a little reasearch would be in order. The Jan. - March 2011 issue of ASMIC's TRADING POST (page 29), has an article as to how, when and why General MacArthur was awarded the Combat Infantry Badge. The article was written by Mr. John E. Marks.

Here is the reason and why he was awarded the CIB. Quoting James W. Zobel, Archivist at the MacArthur Memorial Museum in Norfolk, Virginia, provides the rest of the answer: " It was given to him by General George Decker, Chief of Staff U.S. Army, as an honorary award at MacArthur's birthday party in 1961. Decker was G-3 for 6th Army under MacArthur in World War II and he secured the award for the General when he was 81. When we outfitted MacArthur's uniform in the 1980's we had the U.S. Army Office of Heraldry do it. They approved the placing of the CIB on the blouse we have on display."

This means MacArthur never actually "wore" a CIB.

 

 

Sounds like someone read this thread and then decided to write an article!

 

I wonder if that answers the question about the mysterious "Defense Department officials" who rebuilt MacArthur's ribbons for the museum...

 

Dave

[Wailuna]

...Sounds like someone read this thread and then decided to write an article! ...

Maybe so but what of it? The Forum doesn't own this subject.

 

The author does cite this thread in his bibliography (http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...=84541&st=0), along with several other sources. He obviously has done homework outside the Forum and the result is an excellent article that conclusively and comprehensively answers Forum member Bluehawk's original question (Post#1) in a way that adds a lot of value to the discussion we've been having here for the last five months. Regular followers of this thread and others seriously interested in this topic should read the article for themselves. Most can be sure of learning something new -- I did.

[Dave]

Maybe so but what of it? The Forum doesn't own this subject.

 

 

Ummm...I was making a lighthearted statement...no need to take offense to it or start a fight over it.

 

I'm sorry if I damaged anyone's sensitivities...

 

Dave

[seanmc1114]

Is the wearing of honorary awards on the Army uniform authorized? I think it is clear from all of the research posted on this thread that MacArthur did not, by any stretch of the imagination, earn the CIB. It was given to him as an honorary award for his birthday by one of his former subordinates.

[Bluehawk]

I'm feeling like a small bird in the flock of elders, but cannot help express thanks to all who have contributed answers in every way to what I thought would have been a rather simple question.

 

The outcome appears to be pretty much what instinct was saying to me when I got into it over this with a fellow veteran, not on this forum, and needed to come here for advice. My original opinion was, "I don't believe MacArthur would have shown an insignia that he was not in some way entitled to."

 

The General, heaven knows, spent his time in the suit like most of us did and way more so. It is perfectly sensible for Infantry to want to honor him with what some say is their highest form of recognition, and for him to accept it in that light.

 

I must add, his ribbons are among the most fascinating set I have ever attempted to decipher in my own pathetically amateur manner.

 

Thanks again, to all.

 

:salute:

[Wailuna]

...I was making a lighthearted statement...no need to take offense to it or start a fight over it...

I was not amused but I was not offended and I have not yet begun to fight.

[Wailuna]

...Is the wearing of honorary awards on the Army uniform authorized? It was given to him as an honorary award for his birthday by one of his former subordinates...

We have seen no evidence in this thread to indicate that Gen. MacArthur ever wore a CIB on his uniform either before or after Gen. Decker presented him with the honorary CIB in 1961 or even that he wore his uniform again after his final retirement from active duty in 1951. However, there is a picture in The Trading Post article referred to in Post #90 (above), which shows Gen. Decker handing a cased CIB to Gen. MacArthur. Gen. Decker is wearing the Army Blue uniform and Gen. MacArthur is wearing a tuxedo (entirely unadorned). There is also an image of the orders honorarily awarding the Combat Infantryman Badge to General of the Army Douglas MacArthur "By order of Wilber M. Brucker, Secretary of the Army" which is authenticated by The Adjutant General of the Army.

 

Here another picture of Gen. MacArthur, not in uniform and not wearing the CIB, on an occasion in May, 1962, when wearing his uniform and decorations and awards would have been entirely appropriate:

 

[USMCRECON]

He did not fled. He was ordered out. This is a big, big difference.

 

Luis Ramos

Depends on one's definition of "fled" and whose story one believes. He did earn his Dugout moniker, though, according to a man who was near him most of the time. Years ago I knew a communications man who was in MacArthur's HQ. The first time I heard the nickname, and how it was earned, was from him and what he told me tracks very well with what others who were there also related about MacArthur.

 

As has been mentioned already, generals did occasionally come under fire, Patton probably more than most, but that's not what the CIB was created for. It was to recognize the front-line infantrymen who lived in the field, ate cold rations, shivered in the cold, slogged around in the mud, and saw the elephant day after day. No general did that. The Army recognized that the more senior officers didn't do that and that was why they wrote the criteria as they did.

 

My view of an honorary presentation of the CIB is kinda' like receiving an honorary degree. You can't try to put an honorary Doctor's Degree from Harvard on your resume. You can't practice law with an honorary law degree. About all you can do with those is hang it on your "I Love Me" wall. If that was what these Generals did with their honorary CIBs, I'd have no problem with it. Wearing it and having it reflect on their individual awards records is quite another thing.

[F50lrrp]

There exists a photo of General of the Army Omar Bradley wearing a CIB, too.

[Wailuna]

...There exists a photo of General of the Army Omar Bradley wearing a CIB, too...

Indeed, there does: