How stuff crowded ?

[nicolas75]

Hello

 

- Did you come across stuff crowded US ww2 Tank with packs, rolls and tents ?

 

I sometimes even see the back turret zone that is intented to cool the engine covered with pack or air signaling colored flag

 

- In what extend the low rear exit doors were really reday to be opened by being freed of boxes and other tent ?

 

I begin, to be followed

[Sabrejet]

That's General Patton right there...but you probably knew that, didn't you?

 

Sabrejet

[OD MAN]

Theres not much room in those tanks for stuff, so the only place to put it is on the outside. Heres some more examples (sorry if I used someones pics I had these saved on my computer)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sabrejet]

In the first few pics the exterior clutter is largely there for protection...sandbags, logs etc., provided a degree of stand-off protection against German Panzerfausts etc. If you read WW2 tankers' memoirs you'll find that their tanks were also their "mobile homes", so they invariably carried their packs, bedrolls, water and rations etc. externally to make life a little more comfortable for them when they stopped for the night.

 

Sabrejet

[nicolas75]

Thanks guys for your answer.

 

Some of my questions is in what extend those taken stuff :

 

- could reduce the ability of the turret to 360° rotate

 

- covering the air cooling system gate grid

 

- cover or hide the marking (unit marks, name of the tank, code painted on it)

[Sabrejet]

Thanks guys for your answer.

 

Some of my questions is in what extend those taken stuff :

 

- could reduce the ability of the turret to 360° rotate

 

- covering the air cooling system gate grid

 

- cover or hide the marking (unit marks, name of the tank, code painted on it)

 

 

I suppose the answer to all of the above is "Yes"! Additional weight, paricularly sandbags and logs etc. would certainly downgrade the performance of the vehicle in terms of its mobility and fuel consumption etc. But...if you were a tanker in WW2 self-preservation would have been the highest priority. With regard to turret traverse and access to the engine compartment etc., I'm sure that in the case of the former they'd ensure that this was not obstructed...after all, if a Panther snuck up on you from behind you'd want to engage it before it engaged you...otherwise it'd be like that scene in "Kelly's Heroes" when the Tiger can't bring its gun to bear! As for markings..I'm not sure that this was a major consideration. Oftentimes, they were deliberately obscured with mud and oil by the crewmen themselves...also, tanks moving through open countryside kick up a lot of mud and dust so serial numbers etc would soon disappear beneath it! The main consideration post D-Day was aerial recognition by friendly planes..hence the use of fluorescent panels on the upper surfaces, draped over any external stowage, or prominent white stars on the turret roof.

 

Sabrejet

[craig_pickrall]

I'll bet that in the first pic Patton has just finished chewing out the crew for having the sandbags loaded on the front. He did not like that.

[Sabrejet]

You might well be right there Craig...he looks none too happy! :pinch: Must be very late war as that's an M4A3 76mm HVSS...probably deep into Germany?

 

Ian

[Jeeper704]

Probably 14th Armored as it was part of 3rd Army in April 1945.

 

Erwin

[vostoktrading]

That's General Patton right there...but you probably knew that, didn't you?

 

Sabrejet

He doesn't look too pleased, does he?

[Garandomatic]

Some Sherman book I have actually has that picture captioned as Patton returning from chewing out the crew. He felt the extra weight was a hindrance, wasted gas, etc. and was dead set against it.

[Jeeper704]

He probably would have been chewing out the entire 14th Armored, as that was common practice in that (and many other) unit.

 

Erwin

[posse]

You might well be right there Craig...he looks none too happy! :pinch: Must be very late war as that's an M4A3 76mm HVSS...probably deep into Germany?

 

Ian

 

I agree Ian... Propably sometime close to VE-day...

 

rgds

Bart P

[HerbG]

I bet if any of those crew members are still around they vividly remember that encounter! It would be interesting to hear from one of them.

[Jeeper704]

After going through my "archives" here, I can confirm that this is a crew in the 14th Armored Division "Liberators".

And they just got their a..es chewed by General Patton.

 

Erwin

[bummer]

If memory serves me ,I saw that picture before and the caption was that Patton did give an rump chewing to that crew for the expedient up armoring.Patton felt that the American tankers were superior to the Germans and no additions were needed

[Sabrejet]

If memory serves me ,I saw that picture before and the caption was that Patton did give an rump chewing to that crew for the expedient up armoring.Patton felt that the American tankers were superior to the Germans and no additions were needed

 

Hmmm. Well dear ol' George didn't have to run the risk of high-velocity 88s or shaped-charge Panzerfausts...did he?!

 

Sabrejet :w00t:

[nicolas75]

Ok, once painted and fitted would this model fine for Eto ? not too crowded ?

[Sabrejet]

To be accurate, bedrolls and packs etc. must be attached to something. All too often, modellers just stick packs etc., onto their model AFVs without giving any consideration to whether or not the vehicle actually had any lashing points in that area. You shouldn't just glue a pack to the side of a turret or bedrolls to the hull without giving some thought to their placement. (Just offering some constructive criticism here!)

 

Sabrejet :thumbsup:

[drmessimer]

Ok, once painted and fitted would this model fine for Eto ? not too crowded ?

Sabrejet is right, modelers are able to hang stuff anywhere they want it to hang. But in the real world, we had to have a place and a way to stow it where it was. As an old tanker, my question for you is, what did the crew hang that stuff on? Where are the fasteners, the hooks, the hangers, or anyother method of attachment? The turet basket and the back deck were the only places we could stow stuff, especially personal stuff we didn't want lost. drmessimer

[nicolas75]

Thanks for your answers

 

i was telling myself that maybe ordnance and service units could welded some loops or lashing points upon request of the tank crews ?

[Sabrejet]

Thanks for your answers

 

i was telling myself that maybe ordnance and service units could welded some loops or lashing points upon request of the tank crews ?

 

 

C'est sans doute qu'ils ont fait Nicholas!

 

 

Sabrejet :thumbsup:

[nicolas75]

Thanks for this French answer / Merci pour cette reponse en langue Française :thumbsup:

[45ACP]

Where the items are stored there are no intake or exhaust vents.

Looking at the hight of the gun they might have had some problems swinging the gun.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[audacia cum prudentia]

Ok, once painted and fitted would this model fine for Eto ? not too crowded ?

 

 

No sorry, that roll across the real is way too big, it would be too hard for the crew to lift into place and then hold there to strap on

 

Those bags on the hull sides would last until the tank encountered it's first brush or copse or wood and would then be torn off