Corpsmancollector Posted July 19, 2010 Share #1 Posted July 19, 2010 Here is a set of dyed black, ripstop fatigues. I bought this set of eBay some time ago, as an addition to the SOG uniform I'm putting together. I know that Ed Wolcoff and Frank Greco wore dyed black fatigues at one point or another and I thought these would be good for impression somewhere down the line. Now, having looked much closer at them, I'd like to hear the opinions of fellow forum members who are more experienced in Vietnam militaria, than I. The jacket and trousers are both original and have a DSA - 68 contract date. They both retain their labels inside (I know SOG troopers wore sterile uniforms) the jacket is a medium-reg and the trousers are small-reg. They both show heavy wear in particular areas; knees (especially) elbows, back and sleeves. On the jacket. there are numerous white paint stains and what looks like a cigarette burn. All buttons are present and the thread has been dyed black, where as the labels have gone a blue/purple colour as shown. I'll let the pictures do the talking for themselves, but having examined these closer the last few days, I'm beginning to think that they are actually combat worn items...Maybe not SOG, but another SOF unit? I haven't collected Vietnam era militaria for as long as I've collected WWII and I know it doesn't count for much, but these 'feel' good. I've handled enough original militaria to know the feel and smell of an item, and these have definitely got it. The wear is fairly consistant overall and they stink to high heaven of dirt and muck. The seller on eBay claimed that these came from a guy who was in Special Forces, but stupid me didn't ask who and when he served. We're always saying buy the item and not the story and that's what I did. But I may trawl through my feedback and see if I can contact the seller. Don't hold back on these guys, if they're no good it's no worries, but I'd like to hear you opinions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpsmancollector Posted July 19, 2010 Author Share #2 Posted July 19, 2010 Jacket chest pockets (the jacket looks cleaner in the photos...) Rear pockets of jacket, showing paint stain an cigarette burn: Details of paint stains and wear: Detail of label in the neck of jacket: More details of jacket pockets: The rear of the jacket, the shoulder areas show substantial wear and take on a green-ish/brown hue: Detail of label on inside of jacket: Details of jacket buttons: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpsmancollector Posted July 19, 2010 Author Share #3 Posted July 19, 2010 Detail of wear on trouser legs. The spots on the right hand photo are rain spots, they are not actual on the trousers. Both legs show a brown/red dirt on the knees Trousers: Details of trouser cargo pocket: Left hand pocket of trousers, the stitching has come un-done at the seam: Rear of trousers, straps have been cut short: Rear if trousers: Detail of label in trousers: Both leg ties are present: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpsmancollector Posted July 19, 2010 Author Share #4 Posted July 19, 2010 A comparison of the jacket and trousers. The jacket holds a slightly stronger colour, but in hand there isn't much difference: That's it for now guys! Enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnicklfritz Posted July 19, 2010 Share #5 Posted July 19, 2010 Delta operators initially wore black fatigues when the unit was activated. I can't remember if they were dyed or as issued though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nkomo Posted July 19, 2010 Share #6 Posted July 19, 2010 I have a pair of the dyed jungle pants that came from a Nam era Recon Marine. They are TRASHED though. Numerous repairs and holes. I really like youe dyed set. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpsmancollector Posted July 20, 2010 Author Share #7 Posted July 20, 2010 I have a pair of the dyed jungle pants that came from a Nam era Recon Marine. They are TRASHED though. Numerous repairs and holes. I really like youe dyed set. :thumbsup: Thanks Arch, I was hoping you'd contribute. The set has definitely got that 'been there' look and feel to them, and they smell very musty. I wish I could find out a bit more about where they came from! Are the pants in your collection, similar to those above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpsmancollector Posted July 20, 2010 Author Share #8 Posted July 20, 2010 Delta operators initially wore black fatigues when the unit was activated. I can't remember if they were dyed or as issued though. I've heard that Marc, so would that have been in the late 70s? :think: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nkomo Posted July 20, 2010 Share #9 Posted July 20, 2010 Here are some pictures of my pants. Like I said.....very used. http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...p;hl=dyed+black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMI88 Posted July 20, 2010 Share #10 Posted July 20, 2010 For what it's worth, years ago I found a set of black-dyed jungle fatigue trousers in a thrift store. They look very much like yours, and also have the labels intact. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercenary25 Posted July 20, 2010 Share #11 Posted July 20, 2010 I likey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpsmancollector Posted July 20, 2010 Author Share #12 Posted July 20, 2010 Bill and Mercenary, many thanks for your comments they are most welcome. Arch, thanks for the picture of your pants! I've been trawling through the forum all morning trying to find information on dyed uniforms and who wore them. Yours look quite a bit more worn than mine, but definitely exhibit the same shade of black after considerable wear. Thanks again :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravo_2_zero Posted July 20, 2010 Share #13 Posted July 20, 2010 I remember back in the early 80's on the TV show A-TEAM the bad guys always wore black uniforms, On one shot of a close up the uniforms were dyed Desert BDU's and woodland. My question would be, without the guy who dyed them telling you how they were intednded , how can dyed clothing be 100% sure it's SOG ect... Cos as a teen i dyed a set of badly sun faded trop 107's with a Forest green ritedye which i then sold in eBay years after finding them in the loft again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpsmancollector Posted July 20, 2010 Author Share #14 Posted July 20, 2010 I remember back in the early 80's on the TV show A-TEAM the bad guys always wore black uniforms, On one shot of a close up the uniforms were dyed Desert BDU's and woodland. My question would be, without the guy who dyed them telling you how they were intednded , how can dyed clothing be 100% sure it's SOG ect... Cos as a teen i dyed a set of badly sun faded trop 107's with a Forest green ritedye which i then sold in eBay years after finding them in the loft again. Absolutely, you're quite correct. I am not saying that this is a SOG uniform (I should be so lucky!) but in a SOG style, as I know some men who ran recon dyed there uniforms such as Wolcoff and Greco (of RT New York and RT Colorado) However, as apparent from Marc's post, so did other SOF units such as Delta and I was wondering if anyone on the forum had similar items in their collections/or knew any of the history of dyed black uniforms. Apologies for any misrepresentation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beogam Posted July 20, 2010 Share #15 Posted July 20, 2010 HI ALL HERE IS MY ONLY DYED BLACK PIECE IS EARLY TYPE TIGER PANTS ,THE THING WHO S VERY STRANGE THE GREEN BUTTONS TURN BLACK VERY BLACK ON SURFACE ?? I DONT KNOW DYE WHOS DYED PLASTIC LIKE THIS CHEERS J SUITE SUITE SUITE THE LEGS HAS RETAILORED FOR MORE FIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpsmancollector Posted July 20, 2010 Author Share #16 Posted July 20, 2010 Hi J, Thanks for posting, was hoping you would. Nice dyed TS! Strange about the buttons. On my fatigues, the buttons have stayed the same colour. But, I don't suppose that's too out of the ordinary as the dye would just wipe off them I would imagine. And of course, it depends what type of dye/strength was used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beogam Posted July 20, 2010 Share #17 Posted July 20, 2010 Hi J, Thanks for posting, was hoping you would. Nice dyed TS! Strange about the buttons. On my fatigues, the buttons have stayed the same colour. But, I don't suppose that's too out of the ordinary as the dye would just wipe off them I would imagine. And of course, it depends what type of dye/strength was used. Yes very strange and for sure is not painted or markered usually wipe off them for sure :thumbsup: very several DYE Cheers J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filupe Posted July 21, 2010 Share #18 Posted July 21, 2010 Could I perhaps offer a more mundane suggestion? I don't think just because they are dyed black doesn't make them necessarily 'special ops' issue ... One possible and think more likely reason is to set the uniform apart as an OpFor uniform. Given that the enemy at the time stereotypically wore 'black pyjamas' it would not be unreasonable to think that they would be replicated in this way. In Australia, either individuals or units were dyeing green fatigues black as OpFor uniforms for years after our involvement in Vietnam ended ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpsmancollector Posted July 21, 2010 Author Share #19 Posted July 21, 2010 Could I perhaps offer a more mundane suggestion? I don't think just because they are dyed black doesn't make them necessarily 'special ops' issue ... One possible and think more likely reason is to set the uniform apart as an OpFor uniform. Given that the enemy at the time stereotypically wore 'black pyjamas' it would not be unreasonable to think that they would be replicated in this way. In Australia, either individuals or units were dyeing green fatigues black as OpFor uniforms for years after our involvement in Vietnam ended ... Hi Filupe, Of course, no harm done. You're quite right that just because the fatigues are dyed black, does not mean they were worn by special operations forces. But, it is not outside of the realm of possibility as we know some units did this. However, you're suggestion is an extremely valuable one and one I certainly would not have thought about! Does anyone have any photos of Vietnam fatigues being dyed black for enemy forces during training/war game scenarios? I can think of a few photos in a SEAL book in my library which I think were taken at Coronado, but I don't know what uniforms they're wearing, I'll have to check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpsmancollector Posted July 21, 2010 Author Share #20 Posted July 21, 2010 Yes very strange and for sure is not painted or markered usually wipe off them for sure :thumbsup: very several DYE Cheers J Yeah, that must have been some strong stuff Jerome! Great TS and thanks for sharing :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latewatch Posted July 21, 2010 Share #21 Posted July 21, 2010 I still have a pair of OD Jungle Pants that I dyed black back in the early 80's when I was with 2nd Ranger Bn. We sometimes used them during airfield seizure missions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kriegsmodell Posted July 21, 2010 Share #22 Posted July 21, 2010 Some nice examples and information coming out in this thread! For what it is worth, I have a Woodland BDU top in my collection that has been dyed black and has blood type and No Pen tapes over the chest pockets. If I remember correctly it still has the tags in it. Came from a thrift shop probably 20 - 25 years ago. I will try and drag it out of the bunker and post some photos this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpsmancollector Posted July 21, 2010 Author Share #23 Posted July 21, 2010 I still have a pair of OD Jungle Pants that I dyed black back in the early 80's when I was with 2nd Ranger Bn. We sometimes used them during airfield seizure missions. Thanks for the great info Latewatch! Are they the same (i.e. Vietnam era) as those which Arch and I have shown? And was this common practice, for training or a particular type of mission? Thanks again :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpsmancollector Posted July 21, 2010 Author Share #24 Posted July 21, 2010 Some nice examples and information coming out in this thread! For what it is worth, I have a Woodland BDU top in my collection that has been dyed black and has blood type and No Pen tapes over the chest pockets. If I remember correctly it still has the tags in it. Came from a thrift shop probably 20 - 25 years ago. I will try and drag it out of the bunker and post some photos this weekend. Drag 'em our and post 'em! Blood type and no pen tapes, you say? Sounds SOF to me. I can't find any written markings on my set and I don't think there's any evidence of tapes, but I'll go back and double check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latewatch Posted July 21, 2010 Share #25 Posted July 21, 2010 Thanks for the great info Latewatch! Are they the same (i.e. Vietnam era) as those which Arch and I have shown? And was this common practice, for training or a particular type of mission? Thanks again :thumbsup: I'll drag them out a take a picture when I get back in town next week. We used them for our bldg clearing teams on some of the airfield seizure missions we did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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