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One of my Korean War era Ikes 82nd AB, 325th GIR


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I got this a number of years ago on ebay in one of those mislisted, not sure what they have but want to sell it auctions. It's a decent post-WWII example of an Ike jacket, doesn't look like its been messed with at all. 82nd patch looks good, has the blue infantry disks around the collar insignia, and has a pair of 325th GIR DUIs on the epaulettes. Presidential Unit Citation, as well as the Fourragere combination makes me think he was in on the Normandy Campaign. It has the initial and last four digits stamped in it. Thoughts?

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Looking for the following:

452nd and 447th Bomb Group items

Anything 12th Armored- especially uniforms

155th Assault Helicopter Company, Camp Coryell, or Ban Me Thuot Vietnam items[/center]


WWII US Navy Uniforms from the Battle Off Samar: USS Johnston DD-557, USS Hoel DD-553, USS Samuel B. Roberts DE-413, USS Heermann DD-532, USS Dennis DE-405, USS John C. Butler DE-339, USS Raymond DE-341, USS Fanshaw Bay St. Lo, White Plains, Kalinin Bay, Kitkun Bay and Gambier Bay...


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Here's my take on your Ike jacket. I am assuming that it is correct and un-monkeyed with, though of course, airborne is way up there on the list of messed with uniforms. This is a late 1950's Ike jacket to a soldier in the 325th Airborne Infantry Regiment. The uniform has a French CdG fourragere because the unit was authorized (and still is) to wear it as a unit award. It was the only one of the 325th's foreign awards to be granted this distinction. The Dutch and Belgain cords were only allowed to be worn by those who earned them.

 

Obviously, the disks are in the wrong position, but that is likely because someone pinned them in the wrong place. The fact that there are plastic backing plates on the collar brass indicate that this is definitely a post Korean War uniform.

 

Finally, the lack of chevrons, o/seas bars or hash marks makes me believe that the Ike belonged to a private who would in no way have been around long enough to have been a WWII veteran. My conjecture is that the uniform was worn in the 1955 to 1960 timeframe. The Ike was supposed to be phased out after the introduction of the Army Green 44 uniform in 1956, but the Ike was worn in certain units well after the initial wear-out date.

 

As the NDSM wasn't awarded after the Korean war until the Vietnam War escalated, the Ike's former owner probably didn't qualify for any ribbons. I would have expected to see a jump wing on the chest though.

 

My two cents,

Allan

Never under-estimate the power of prayer.

 

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Well, that kinda sucks, being mistaken and all. It was my understanding that the Presidential Unit Citation and Fourragere would have only been worn by the old salts that earned them. There's at least two holes above the pocket for either a single, maybe double ribbon or wings. People always seem to take those off before they get to me... I paid next to nothing for it, so it's monetary value is probably still in the black, I was just proud of the historical significance that I thought it had.

Looking for the following:

452nd and 447th Bomb Group items

Anything 12th Armored- especially uniforms

155th Assault Helicopter Company, Camp Coryell, or Ban Me Thuot Vietnam items[/center]


WWII US Navy Uniforms from the Battle Off Samar: USS Johnston DD-557, USS Hoel DD-553, USS Samuel B. Roberts DE-413, USS Heermann DD-532, USS Dennis DE-405, USS John C. Butler DE-339, USS Raymond DE-341, USS Fanshaw Bay St. Lo, White Plains, Kalinin Bay, Kitkun Bay and Gambier Bay...


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Well, that kinda sucks, being mistaken and all. It was my understanding that the Presidential Unit Citation and Fourragere would have only been worn by the old salts that earned them. There's at least two holes above the pocket for either a single, maybe double ribbon or wings. People always seem to take those off before they get to me... I paid next to nothing for it, so it's monetary value is probably still in the black, I was just proud of the historical significance that I thought it had.

 

Those are both UNIT awards earned by the unit, not by any individuals. As such, anyone who serves in the unit wears them, including current members of the unit.

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I understand, I just didn't think a fella that was barely out of diapers in 1944 would be cleared to wear one for Normandy so long after the fact.

Looking for the following:

452nd and 447th Bomb Group items

Anything 12th Armored- especially uniforms

155th Assault Helicopter Company, Camp Coryell, or Ban Me Thuot Vietnam items[/center]


WWII US Navy Uniforms from the Battle Off Samar: USS Johnston DD-557, USS Hoel DD-553, USS Samuel B. Roberts DE-413, USS Heermann DD-532, USS Dennis DE-405, USS John C. Butler DE-339, USS Raymond DE-341, USS Fanshaw Bay St. Lo, White Plains, Kalinin Bay, Kitkun Bay and Gambier Bay...


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I understand, I just didn't think a fella that was barely out of diapers in 1944 would be cleared to wear one for Normandy so long after the fact.

Anyone assigned to a unit awarded certain unit awards are authorized to wear the award regardless of the date of their birth. If the soldier was actually a member of the unit when the award was earned, they can wear the award permanently.

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When a soldier who was NOT with the unit when it was awarded the unit award discussed above leave the unit i.e. posted to another unit or leaves the service he/she no longer wears those awards on his/her uniform. Example: When I was stationed with the 509th Airborne Battalion Combat Team from 1978-1980 I wore a Presidential Unit Citation with OLC and the French Zoave Badge on my uniform, these awards where awarded to the unit in WWII a good 11 to 12 years before I made my first PLF into this world.

GERONIMO

John

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And so if this fella's entire career was with the 325th/82nd, regardless of entering the service, he'd have no reason to take off the PUC and Fourragere because he was done with the military. Gotcha. Oh well, it's still Airborne.

Looking for the following:

452nd and 447th Bomb Group items

Anything 12th Armored- especially uniforms

155th Assault Helicopter Company, Camp Coryell, or Ban Me Thuot Vietnam items[/center]


WWII US Navy Uniforms from the Battle Off Samar: USS Johnston DD-557, USS Hoel DD-553, USS Samuel B. Roberts DE-413, USS Heermann DD-532, USS Dennis DE-405, USS John C. Butler DE-339, USS Raymond DE-341, USS Fanshaw Bay St. Lo, White Plains, Kalinin Bay, Kitkun Bay and Gambier Bay...


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I understand, I just didn't think a fella that was barely out of diapers in 1944 would be cleared to wear one for Normandy so long after the fact.

The thing that always interests/frustrates me when I see a soldier wearing numerous unit awards is that you never know which ones, if any, he was present for duty when they were earned and which ones were earned by his present unit. My understanding of the regulations is that he is authorized to wear both simultaneously. So, for example, say a soldier was assigned and present for duty in a unit when it earned a presidential Unit Citation and a Valorous Unit Award and was later assigned to a different unit that earned two PUC's, a Valorous Unit Award and a Meritorious Unit Commendation prior to his service with the unit. Wouldn't the regulations authorize him to wear a PUC with 2 Oak Leaf Clusters, a VUA with one Oak Leaf Cluster and the MUC?

 

On the other hand, I always understood that foreign unit awards were only authorized for individual wear by someone who actually earned them so that someone later assigned to a unit that earned a foreign award could not wear that award unless he was also assigned and present with the unit when the award was earned. I was not aware of an exception to that rule for the French CdG fourragere.

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On the other hand, I always understood that foreign unit awards were only authorized for individual wear by someone who actually earned them so that someone later assigned to a unit that earned a foreign award could not wear that award unless he was also assigned and present with the unit when the award was earned. I was not aware of an exception to that rule for the French CdG fourragere.

 

Not so. For example, current 82nd AB soldiers are still authorized to wear the units earned fourragere......a couple 2nd Marine still wear one the UNIT was awarded for WWI! Confussing isn't it?

Always looking for 325th G.I.R. and WWII USMC items!
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Not so. For example, current 82nd AB soldiers are still authorized to wear the units earned fourragere......a couple 2nd Marine still wear one the UNIT was awarded for WWI! Confussing isn't it?

So are you saying that there are certain foreign awards current members of the unit are authorized to wear but not others (e.g. the French Fourragere but not the Netherlands Orange Lanyard) or that certain units have specifically been given the right to allow current members to wear unit awards previously awarded to the unit?

 

I'm pretty sure that no one is currently authorized to wear the Philippines, Korean or Vietnamese unit awards their current units are entitled to unless they were present for duty when they were earned.

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So are you saying that there are certain foreign awards current members of the unit are authorized to wear but not others (e.g. the French Fourragere but not the Netherlands Orange Lanyard) or that certain units have specifically been given the right to allow current members to wear unit awards previously awarded to the unit?

 

I'm pretty sure that no one is currently authorized to wear the Philippines, Korean or Vietnamese unit awards their current units are entitled to unless they were present for duty when they were earned.

 

I think I need to throw in a couple of points for clarification here- first, the French have authorized U.S. regiments to wear fourrageres which denote two unit awards of the Croix de Guerre in perpetuity. That means that a marine born in 1990, who is serving in the 5th or 6th Marines is authorized to wear the fourragere that was earned by the valor displayed by men in 1917 and 1918. Soldiers of the 16th Infantry Regiment are authorized to wear the fourragere to the French Medalle Militaire for unit awards earned in World War I AND World War II. Paratroopers of the 509th Airborne Infantry are authorized to wear the badge of the 3rd French Zouaves on their right chest pocket as a reminder of the valor of the paratroopers who jumped into North Africa in 1942.

 

Units like the 325th that also received unit awards of the Dutch Order of Willem (Dutch Orange Lanyard) and the Belgian fourragere to the Croix de Guerre for valor in World War II are only authorized to be worn by those who were there to earn those awards- thus they are no longer worn in the army today.

 

Does this help at all?

Allan

Never under-estimate the power of prayer.

 

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Haha, yeah, it's convinced me to keep on buying up Navy stuff!

Looking for the following:

452nd and 447th Bomb Group items

Anything 12th Armored- especially uniforms

155th Assault Helicopter Company, Camp Coryell, or Ban Me Thuot Vietnam items[/center]


WWII US Navy Uniforms from the Battle Off Samar: USS Johnston DD-557, USS Hoel DD-553, USS Samuel B. Roberts DE-413, USS Heermann DD-532, USS Dennis DE-405, USS John C. Butler DE-339, USS Raymond DE-341, USS Fanshaw Bay St. Lo, White Plains, Kalinin Bay, Kitkun Bay and Gambier Bay...


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I'm pretty sure that no one is currently authorized to wear the Philippines, Korean or Vietnamese unit awards their current units are entitled to unless they were present for duty when they were earned.

 

Actually there are service women and men who have served in 2002 as part of Joint Task Force 510 and the Joint Special Operations Task Force-Philippines that are eligible to wear the Philippine Republic Presidential Unit Citation as awarded by President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo. I don't recall where the order is located but I recall seeing it online before and also in Army Times.

Be well,

 

Chad C. Rogers

Retired Army

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Actually there are service women and men who have served in 2002 as part of Joint Task Force 510 and the Joint Special Operations Task Force-Philippines that are eligible to wear the Philippine Republic Presidential Unit Citation as awarded by President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo. I don't recall where the order is located but I recall seeing it online before and also in Army Times.

And that is what seanmc1114 says- "....unless they were present for duty when they were earned." If the award was accepted by the DoD, then it may be worn by those assigned to the unit during the qualifying period.

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And that is what seanmc1114 says- "....unless they were present for duty when they were earned." If the award was accepted by the DoD, then it may be worn by those assigned to the unit during the qualifying period.

Thanks. I wasn't aware that the Philippine PUC had been awarded to U.S. troops that recently but I did know that it has been awarded since World War II. It was awarded to some U.S. forces for assistance in disaster relief between 1970 and 1972.

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Units like the 325th that also received unit awards of the Dutch Order of Willem (Dutch Orange Lanyard) and the Belgian fourragere to the Croix de Guerre for valor in World War II are only authorized to be worn by those who were there to earn those awards- thus they are no longer worn in the army today.

 

Does this help at all?

Allan

 

Allan, it may have changed but when I was a member of 3/33 Armor in 1978-80, we were authorized to wear the Belgian fourragere.

Judges 1:19- And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

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