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RARE Sgt Chevron!


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That's exactly what was done. On these style chevrons, for a SSGT and above, the top chevrons and bottom rockers do not touch. So, a staff sgt chevron could be trimmed to resemble a sgt. You'll notice on this "sgt" chevron, the sides and top edges have a border (very light, but it is there.) The bottom edges are different, because they were trimmed.

Kurt

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I had read some place that both of the three stripe chevrons were made before it was decide not to use them. Too bad I can not remember where I read that.

 

John

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I had read some place that both of the three stripe chevrons were made before it was decide not to use them. Too bad I can not remember where I read that.

 

John

 

I think Emerson's book on chevrons mentions this. Some manufaturers jumped the gun and did produce the three stripe sergeant, but it was never used. I used to have one that was definitely NOT a cut down. Like a dummy, I traded it off and have regretted that ever since. :crying:

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Paul, off the top of my head. These small chevrons were introduced in the early 1950's. They were suppose to replace the larger sized chevrons and they were going to switch to an easier pay grade. There was to be no sgt rank in the new system. In general, the men did not like the smaller chevrons and the army returned to the larger ranks.

 

On a personal note, I did like the fact that non-combatants worn a different color chevron than combatants.

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Sell and / or trade items: http://s1080.photobucket.com/albums/j335/36tex/Military Collectables For Sale or Trade/

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The Army dropped the three strip Sergeant insignia in 1948 and made the three stripe and one rocker the E-5 insignia, the theory behind this was that they wanted more of a delineation between EM and NCOs (NCOs have rockers and EM don't) it also divide draftees and professional soldiers because draftees rarely made it past corporal in one two year hitch. The small stripes came in blue on yellow for combat troops and yellow on blue for support troops. The small stripes for combat and support troops only lasted a few years but the three strip E-5 did not return until 1957.

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For my own education, what is the background information on this insignia? Why is it so rare? Why was it not meant for E5s?

 

These chevrons came into use in about 1947-48 time period and went out in the 1952-53 time period. E-5 was called "Sergeant" and wore what had been previously worn by Staff Sergeants (3 up with one rocker). E-1 & E-2 wore no chevrons as Privates. E-3 wore one stripe as PFC, E-4 wore 2 stripes as Corporal, E-5 wore the old S/Sgt. of three up and a rocker & were just Sergeants. E-6 wore three up and 2 rockers and E-7 wore 3 up and 3 rockers. There were only 7 paygrades during this time period.

Why is this insignia so rare? Few were made with just the 3 stripes and none were ever used. Hope this explains it.

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Compare the first chevron (subject of this thread) and the ones Larry posted. Larry's chevrons have a border at the bottom and are original, unlike the trimmed first chevron.

Kurt

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I recall that when I was a kid, chevrons like these were included as prizes in cereal boxes.

 

I got a non-combat Sergeant (yellow stripes on blue... 3 chevrons & one rocker), from that set via a cereal box when I was a kid back in the 50's. That little chevron is still in my collection to this day! ;)

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Heh, I learn something every day! I did not know about the lack of three-striped sergeants with the 1948 stripes.....

 

-Ski

In Memory Of......
Pte Harold Griffiths, 1805, 1/6th Manchester Regt, KIA June 4th, 1915 in Gallipoli
Cpl Isaac Judges, 40494, 6th East Yorkshire Regt, KIA October 3rd, 1917 in Ypres
May they rest in peace.....

MSgt - USAF Retired

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Heh, I learn something every day! I did not know about the lack of three-striped sergeants with the 1948 stripes.....

 

-Ski

Ski-

Same deal applies to the 1951 OD-on-Blue twill regular size stripes. I'd be interested to see if anyone has a 3 stripe original of one of those kicking around. I've never seen one.

Kurt

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There have been several threads discussing these small chevrons previously. One thing that gets mentioned frequently is that some police departments did use this size rank insignia and the 3 stripe SGT would be a rank they used.

 

I have posted this drawing before too. It is the drawing that coved the blue / gold chevrons as well as the WAC chevrons. You can see where they XXX'ed thru the 3 stripe SGT so it did exist however briefly. Of course everything to do with the blue / gold has been deleted and all that remains is the buff for WAC's.

 

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PLEASE NOTE: THIS COMMUNITY MEMBER, SADLY, HAS PASSED AWAY

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Ski-

Same deal applies to the 1951 OD-on-Blue twill regular size stripes. I'd be interested to see if anyone has a 3 stripe original of one of those kicking around. I've never seen one.

Kurt

 

 

That is an interesting question that I don't recall ever hearing before. I have seen many debates on the small chevrons but very little discussion of the chevrons that replaced them. I just checked my collection and I do not have a blue twill SGT chevron and do not recall ever seeing one.

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PLEASE NOTE: THIS COMMUNITY MEMBER, SADLY, HAS PASSED AWAY

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These chevrons came into use in about 1947-48 time period and went out in the 1952-53 time period. E-5 was called "Sergeant" and wore what had been previously worn by Staff Sergeants (3 up with one rocker). E-1 & E-2 wore no chevrons as Privates. E-3 wore one stripe as PFC, E-4 wore 2 stripes as Corporal, E-5 wore the old S/Sgt. of three up and a rocker & were just Sergeants. E-6 wore three up and 2 rockers and E-7 wore 3 up and 3 rockers. There were only 7 paygrades during this time period.

Why is this insignia so rare? Few were made with just the 3 stripes and none were ever used. Hope this explains it.

 

Lee: Actually the three-stripe Sgt. was alive and well in the 1950's. I was one while in Berlin, promoted to E-5 Sgt. (three stripes) from Cpl. E-4 (two stripes) in 1958. Here is a photo of my stripes in Berlin in July 1958 while in Co. F. 40th Armor. Staff Sergeants wore three up and one down. As I recall, the E-5 specialist wore an eagle patch with one stripe below the eagle, but E-5 Sgts wore three stripes. Dwight (drmessimer)

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Actually the three-stripe Sgt. was alive and well in the 1950's. I was one while in Berlin, promoted to E-5 Sgt. (three stripes) from Cpl. E-4 (two stripes) in 1958.

According to Emersons's "Chevrons", 1958 was the year the Army re-instituted the three-stripe Sergeant, after having not used it since 1948.

~ In Memory Of ~
Donald Earl Boston, IC3 - KILO PLT, SEAL TEAM ONE, TF 116, USNAVFORV - KIA 07 April 1967, Vietnam
David Rolland Jackson, CWO - 71ST AHC, 14TH AVN BN
, 16TH AVN GROUP, AMERICAL - KIA 25 September 1969, Vietnam

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According to Emersons's "Chevrons", 1958 was the year the Army re-instituted the three-stripe Sergeant, after having not used it since 1948.

 

That's correct. The three stripe sergeant re-appeared in 1958 along with the gold on green chevrons. You guys are also correct that there was no three stripe sergeant for the green on blue twill chevrons that replaced the small combat/non-combat yellow & blue chevrons. This late 50's time period was also the time the Army and Marines both had some confusion about what paygrade wore what stripes becuse with the addition of two more paygrades, both of these services added one rank in the lower end and one at the top end. The Air Force, Navy and Coast Guard added both new pay grades to the top of the stack and eliminated these problems. All of this confusion that resulted in the Army & USMC has been documented elsewhere, but in a nut shell they had some E-5's wearing 3 stripes and some wearing 4. Depended when a man was promoted as to what chevrons he wore. This was supposed to clear itself up with promotions and attrition, but by about 1961, they had to tell everyone to wear the correct chevron for their pay grade, so some guys who had been wearing the 4 stripe chevron but were E-5's had to take their stripes off and replace them with buck Sergeant stripes.

In my reference files I have some old newspaper clippings from service newspapers that discuss this problem in depth.

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