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Need ID on Camoflage Uniform


Tonomachi
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July 28, 2007

 

Hello,

 

I've had the pants in my collection for a long time and recently found what looked like a matching top at the flea market but the buttons are different. The buttons on the shirt are the fat OD green ones that I think first came out with the jungle jacket. The buttons on the pants are thinner OD green made from a harder plastic? The material weight and camo pattern look the same with both pieces although the colors in the shirt shirt are more faded. There are no labels. The zipper is marked TEE. Is this military or some type of civilian set sold to sportsmen and hunters?

 

Thanks,

 

Dennis

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vintageproductions

Dennis-There is a actual SVN quartermaster issue of this pattern, but these two pieces are civilian / commercial. The way I have always understood it, was in 1975 there was a lot of the various patterns of camo on a ship headed to Saigon from Taipei. When the Communists took Saigon the ships were diverted to the Philippines, and a lot of the camo was sold on the open market or to civilian compaines in the US. This story was published in the Vietnam Insignia Collectors Newsletter back in the 80's by Clem kelly who was a merchantman and traveled to these countries regularly. I can attest that in the mid-80's there was still original tiger stripe material outside of Clark Air Base.

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Dennis-There is a actual SVN quartermaster issue of this pattern, but these two pieces are civilian / commercial. The way I have always understood it, was in 1975 there was a lot of the various patterns of camo on a ship headed to Saigon from Taipei. When the Communists took Saigon the ships were diverted to the Philippines, and a lot of the camo was sold on the open market or to civilian compaines in the US. This story was published in the Vietnam Insignia Collectors Newsletter back in the 80's by Clem kelly who was a merchantman and traveled to these countries regularly. I can attest that in the mid-80's there was still original tiger stripe material outside of Clark Air Base.

You're saying that the fabric, not the actual garments were sent to the Philippines then sold to manufactures to make the clothing pieces. Correct???

 

Interesting story. I have always wondered why these commercial garments were made from SVN camo. Thanks for sharing!

 

 

---Chris

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vintageproductions

Chris-Yes, according to Clem Kelly the bolts of material were on their way to Saigon and the ships were told to find another port, because the country was falling.

Bob

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi,

 

I ve added the pictures of my set of ARVN camo made in the same material of the pictures above. This camo pattern was almost used only by the ARVN Rangers and their Advisors from 64-67 (my set is dated in 65), I never saw any uniform in this pattern after 68 when the US ERDL lime was extensively used.

 

My assumption is this design was the precursor of the ERDL that was not retained by the army because unfit for tropical uses (thick cotton...), that s why it was sent to Vietnam. With the arrival of ERDL Poplin, maybe the remain stock was sold to commercial brand to make hunting outfit.

 

I think in 1975, it is almost impossible that SVN still imported such pattern for its war use, the explaination about the ships that docked to Philipines might be true for Tiger Stripe but not for this one.

 

VU

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vintageproductions

Vu-Will have to argue this one with you. We have handled numerous pieces of this camo pattern with the Vn QM stamps in it. In fact sold one in our shop about two weeks ago with a 1969 issue date and in a size A-7. This pattern started appearing in the US on the commercial market after Vietnam fell and was sold in sporting goods stores and catalogs for hunters, throughout the 1970's and into the early 1980's. I 100% believe the story from Clem Kelly as he was a merchant seaman heavily involved with shipping around Southeast Asia during this time. It was not just this pattern and tiger stripes, but also ERDL, and almost any other pattern available during Vietnam. Once it made it to the Philippines or returned to Taiwan, whichever port was closest, the receivers sold it off as fast as they could to re-coup some money.

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Hi Bob,

 

Thanks for sharing your point of view about these uniforms. Of course, my assumption that the ARVN no longer used this camo pattern in 75 was based on thoses facts:

- I haven't seen any pictures of soldiers wearing massively this pattern in 1974-1975, but only in the newer ARVN ERDL

- This pattern, if used until 1975, must be less scarce on Ebay. Vietnamese people make massively "new old" uniform with old deadstock ARVN ERDL fabric rolls or Field Police that some Ebay Sellers sell for "real vintage" ones, they should have made the same within this pattern,

- After 68, according to my survey, I only see few advisor shirts in this pattern, far less than US ERDL or ARVN ERDL (my Survey includes only Ebay, and few dealers websites)

- When I was in Vietnam, I did not see this pattern on uniform stores, when I asked, some dealers even didn't know it.

 

Is there any possibility that some asian armies ( I think Thai army) used this pattern during the 70s and sold it for the hunting brand during the end of 70s.

 

I might be wrong because these all things happened long before my birthday :D

 

Cheers

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