37mm AT Gun

[Robswashashore]

OK you Ground Forces Experts: Can anybody identify the weapon that my late father-in-law is practicing with in this photo of Troop D, Fourth Motor Sq. Mass. State Guard circa 1944?

 

(My dad was in the Air Corps and I don't know nothin' bout guns!)

 

Thanks.

 

[bmbrzmn101]

37mm antitank gun. Chris

[Johan Willaert]

http://www.olive-drab.com/idphoto/id_photos_m3antitank.php

[Rakkasan187]

Yup,

 

37mm. anti-tank gun. The same type of gun John F. Kennedy had lashed to the bow of PT109 proir to its sinking minus the wheels. He and his crew only had time to temporarily lash it to planks, and could not mount it prior to the fateful mission when his boat was sunk.

 

Leigh...

[Robswashashore]

Thanks fellas! I knew you would come through!

 

(I'm sure the good people of Cape Cod slept better knowing that if the Nazis tanks landed on First Encounter Beach those 37s would take care of them!)

 

Oh and that PT109 story is cool...

[45B20]

Interesting photo, in that it shows the M3 being used with the Subcaliber Mount M6 with either a Subcaliber Rifle M2A1 (.22 cal.) or a Subcaliber Rifle M1903A2 (.30 cal.).

 

Photos of the 37mm M3 with the Subcaliber device mounted and being used are not that common.

 

Thank you for posting these.

 

45B20

[Robswashashore]

Wow, 45B20 -- As I said, I don't know nuthin' bout guns -- I assume the subcaliber rifles M2A1 and M1903A2 (22 and 30 mm) you refer to are the Carbine and the Springfield? But for the life of me, I don't see any rifles in the picture! Mounted on the 37 mm gun carriage? Where? Can you help out an unwary and untutored novice?

(Guess if I'm gonna hang around this forum, I'm gonna learn me sumthin' bout guns.)

[45B20]

Rob

The castle nut looking object sticking out of the rear of the breech is the is the M6 Subcaliber Mount itself.

The object under the loader’s finger is the receiver of the Subcaliber Rifle either .22 or .30 cal.

 

Both Subcaliber Rifles are based on the Rifle M1903, generally referred to as the 03 Springfield. There is a .22 cal version of the M1903, first of this type was the M1922, then M1922A1, and then the M2, (US Rifle, Cal..22 M2). This M2 was modified into a subcaliber rifle by removing the wood and sights and fitting a bronze bushing to the front the barrel, to hold the barrel centered in the bore. The Subcaliber Rifle’s receiver was supported by the rear of the Mount.

 

The .30 cal. Subcaliber Rifle was the Rifle M1903 .30 cal. modified in much the same way. When modified it was referred to as Subcaliber Rifle, Cal..30 M1903A2. The rear part of the barrel (chamber part) had shallow grooves cut length wise that helped keep the Subcaliber Rifle aliened. I do not remember if the .22 Subcaliber Rifle had these grooves, I don’t think so.

 

After WWII many of these .30 cal Subcaliber Rifles went thru Rebuild/Overhauled and were rebuild as standard M1903 Rifles. The ’A2’ mark was lined out.

 

As far as I can remember these subcaliber mount, using the M1903 type Rifles, were only used in the 37mm & 57mm Anti-Tank Guns, the M14 Mount was used with the 57mm.

 

There was also a Subcaliber Rifle cal..22, M5. This was a .22 cal. Barrel inside of a bronze casting that looked like a complete round with a very blunt end. This was loaded with a .22 cart. , then chambered, breech block closed, then fired, then extracted/ejected from the chamber, and then started all over again. This gave the loader practice. Said to be used only in 37mm Tank Guns, but I do not see why it could not have been used in the Anti-Tank Gun?? Never seen one,

 

Anyway, hope this gives you a general idea of the use of the subcaliber rifle in your photo.

 

45B20

[gunbarrel]

[gunbarrel]

[Robswashashore]

Thanks so much, 45B20 and gunbarrel. I see exactly what you are talking about now by comparing the photos. So what they did was convert the caliber of the gun down to 22 or 30. Since you guys have been so patient, may I inquire why they did this? Why not just pick up the Springfield with the stock and shoot it like a rifle? Or was this modification only done for training purposes to save rounds of the larger ammo?

[45B20]

Rob

 

Subcalibers are used so that training with artillery (big guns) could be done much cheaper and on smaller ranges. With the .22 caliber, training could be done inside armories, I’ve seen photos of some elaborate miniature indoor sand box ranges with toy trucks and tanks.

 

I should add that this was done not just with artillery, it was/is done with small arms of all types, this includes rocket launcher, mortars and just about anything you can think of. Really breaks down to one thing, money

 

There are huge numbers of subcaliber devices out there, would/does make a interesting collecting specialty.

 

45B20

[Robswashashore]

Thank you for the excellent "Artillery 101" (Or maybe "Army Guns for Dummies?" :emba0005: ) I am going to print out your responses and keep them for future reference. This forum is great!