A simple Special forces shirt that is right .

[kammo-man]

Its nice to look at a 100% right piece.

This is one of those items ,with correct everything .

I will show you why.

 

Here is the jungle jacket to a 1st LT 5th Special Forces Group.

The Man worked with LLDB, he has the pocket patch sewn through the pocket to the jacket itself.

The US ARMY is US made.

The basic para wings are Twill and US made.

CIB twill US made.

Name tape US made but crude.

Vietnamese para wings Viet made by hand.

Rank is also Viet made.

Chest rank Viet hand made.

Service device US made.

SSI US made merowed edge.

Airborne US made and cut edge.

 

The jacket is a 4th model poplin jungle jacket dated 1967.

 

During this time frame a mix of both US and Viet made patches were the norm.

Its common to see the mix on original jungle jackets and here we have one with the correct sewing through out.

I am going to show this as a bench mark to base fake jackets on.

 

owen

[kammo-man]

Here is the business side

[kammo-man]

and here are the awards , look at the dry stitching fully puckered nicely.

[kammo-man]

and the back.

 

This is how REAL jackets should look.

A faker can NEVER achieve this effect.

 

The thread is bone dry and vintage cotton.

One good pull and these patches would fall of .

[kammo-man]

Name and Viet made wing.

[kammo-man]

The back side showing the tan thread

[kammo-man]

A nice SSI and Airborne arc

[kammo-man]

And this is the pocket patch .

 

So when buying your nice jungle jackets from the Vietnam war no matter what the unit is the stitching should look like this that I have shown .

 

owen

[316th FS 324th FG]

Owen

 

Really, really nice.

[Corpsmancollector]

Great piece as usual O.

 

May I ask, what you mean by a 4th model poplin jacket?

 

It's really useful to have pics of the stitching on the reverse of the jacket, like you say this can't be achiveved by fakers. Too many loose threads on repros!

[kammo-man]

There are 5 different Jungle jacket models

 

This is 4th in line .

 

owen

[Corpsmancollector]

Ok, got it.

 

In that case I'm missing some...

 

1st pattern: Exposed buttons (often seen worn by advisers in the early 60's?) poplin

2nd pattern: Closed button, poplin

3rd pattern: Closed button, ripstop

 

What are the other pieces to the puzzle? You can tell Vietnam isn't my primary era

[taucco]

i think the 3rd pattern is the covered buttons without epaulets ecc... in poplin.

4th is ripstop

5th is ripstop with different sleeve cuff design.

 

am i wrong?

 

anyway, it is a fantastic piece and above all a good lesson to learn how to recognize original items, thanks

[stephen]

owen very nice shirt :thumbsup:

[Corpsmancollector]

i think the 3rd pattern is the covered buttons without epaulets ecc... in poplin.

4th is ripstop

5th is ripstop with different sleeve cuff design.

 

am i wrong?

 

anyway, it is a fantastic piece and above all a good lesson to learn how to recognize original items, thanks

 

Thanks Tauco!

 

Really is a great shirt and a handy way to spot originals

[aips]

its actually more like 9-10 different pattern jackets

but thats being picky

[vintageproductions]

As far as I know there are five normal patterns, maybe six, but that is really splitting hairs to pull the sixth one out.

[Spike]

I seriously DOUBT there are as many 9 or 10 different types of OD green jungle jackets.

[vintageproductions]

Or do the nine or ten include all the way into the 80's?

[bill brewster]

Or do the nine or ten include all the way into the 80's?

 

Gents,

 

This is a vexing question. As a museum curator I oversee the cataloging of objects which inpart involves the creation of records. Each record has to accurately reflect the object it describes to the best of our abilities. We add between 400 and 800 objects each year and so it is important to assure accuracy. This starts with naming conventions. For the governemnt during the Vietnam War there was one name for the piece being discussed here and that is the Tropical Combat Coat, or as the label reads, Coat, Man's, Combat, Tropical.

 

For the Tropical Coat there is only one pattern and that does not change during the Vietnam Conflict. It is a long sleeve, button closure, cotton coat with four flapped pockets where the upper left and right pockets are set at an inward angle and the lower two pockets are square to the body.

 

What does change is the fabric weave, the color, construction elements, and construction features. Combined and looked at chronolgically, a typology can be constructed, but deciding what counts within that typology is where it becomes sticky.

 

Here is what we have to work with to create the comlete typology.

 

1. Fabric Weave

a. poplin

[butcher]

Owen,i don't like it at all, give it to me, shipping cost on me and btw, Happy 4'th of July :thumbsup:

[DiGilio]

Or do the nine or ten include all the way into the 80's?

 

The 2nd - 3rd pattern transitional models are usually overlooked but if you call them a pattern you can get clos to 9 or 10.

[bill brewster]

OK, let's try that again.

 

 

Gents,

 

This is a vexing question. As a museum curator, I oversee the cataloging of objects, which in part involves the creation of records. Each record has to reflect accurately the object it describes to the best of our abilities. We add between 400 and 800 objects each year and so it is important to assure accuracy. This starts with naming conventions. For the U.S. Government during the Vietnam War there was one name for the clothing piece being discussed here and that is the Tropical Combat Coat, or as the label reads, Coat, Man's, Combat, Tropical.

 

For the Tropical Coat there is only one pattern and that does not change during the Vietnam Conflict. It is a long sleeve, button closure, cotton coat with four flapped pockets where the upper left and right pockets are set at an inward angle and the lower two pockets are square to the body.

 

What does change is the fabric weave, the color, construction elements, and features. Combined and looked at chronologically, a typology can be created, but deciding what to count within the typology is where it becomes sticky.

 

Here is what we have potentially to create the complete typology.

 

1. Fabric Weave

A. poplin

B. ripstop poplin

C. insect resistant poplin

 

2. Color

A. OG-107

B. camouflage (ERDL)

 

3. Construction Elements

A. one piece back

B. yoke back

 

4. Features

A. six button closure

B. five button closure

C. exposed pocket buttons

D. covered pocket buttons

E. epaulettes

F. gas flap

G. waist tabs

H. pen openings (1 or 2)

I. hanging loop

J. pocket water drain holes

 

As it is now 1:30 in the am, in all likelihood I missed something here. Folks will say that under number 4, H-J don't count because they are minor and that's fine with me. I have also heard it said that the carryover of certain features was nothing more than using up existing stock, gas flaps and waist tabs. That strikes me as unlikely because this was about capitalism, clothing manufacturing that is, and maximizing profits always means avoiding unnecessary steps, ergo, we won't do something that is not required by contract. In the end, the number of recognized types depends on the assigned relative importance of any given feature. It would be wonderful to see the various contracts and discussion notes. To my knowledge, no one has uncovered that information if it exists. Regardless, food for thought, and maybe tomorrow I will go digging through boxes to see what was missed.

 

Bill Brewster

Curator of History

Wisconsin Veterans Museum

[aips]

I seriously DOUBT there are as many 9 or 10 different types of OD green jungle jackets.

 

 

i dont there are quite a few and thats not going into the 80s either

but it is hair spliting

theres probley 5-6 normal pattern ones that you could reconise then theres a few more ones with little things which make them a bit differnt

so i count them as a differnt pattern thats why i say there 9-10 but there could be more

jack

[Corpsmancollector]

Perhaps we should aim to develop a reference thread on this topic? I'm sure it would help a lot of people

 

I just have 3 different patterns in my collection