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WWII T-Handle Shovel Unsupported w/odd case


drwitte
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Hey all. I'm new to the forum as I've never had a question about a piece of WWII equipment that I could not find through my research so I'm hoping you all can help. I acquired this T-Handle Shovel recently and it is an odd one. Most shovels have metal supported on both sides of the handle but this one only has metal on one side. Is this normal? It all looks original. Is it rare? Any history behind it?

 

Also, the hook for the belt is lower on the cover unlike all of the others that have it sewed on higher up. What is the deal with this? History? Purpose? Thanks guys.DSCN1013.jpg

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kjones5452

I think the reason for moving the belt attachment was the shovel didn't swing and

slap so much when running which at the same time made a more stable set up. I

think I explained it right. I believe it's talked about in the book Grunt Gear but don't

hold me to that. Can't say what the deal is with the shovel.

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Captainofthe7th

The cover is briefly touched on in Stanton's U.S. Army Uniforms of WWII on pg. 120. There is a photo showing how it looks on the jungle pack and a diagram noting the difference in placement of the 1910 hook. The lower hook was favored because it allowed the shovel to ride higher on the pack (or belt) as kjones said. However, I think they are not as common and therefore more desirable from a collecting standpoint. I hope someone else has more to add because I've been curious about these lately as well.

 

That's all I know - I can't comment on the shovel as they have been up for discussion for some time as to whether they are an early model or just a surplus store deal.

 

Rob

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Garandomatic

I read somewhere about shovels like that. I could be wrong, but as I recall, they are either prototypes, or some kind of very early production model that had problems, causing them to redesign and strengthen. If memory serves, I think it is very early WWI. Of this I am 95% sure. I'll check my source downstairs and report back.

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craig_pickrall

There are several threads here on the forum discussing that shovel. General opinion is a civilian model probably made from surplus GI parts.

 

The cover with the low hanger was originally made for the Mountain Rucksack and this is well documented.

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There are several threads here on the forum discussing that shovel. General opinion is a civilian model probably made from surplus GI parts.

 

The cover with the low hanger was originally made for the Mountain Rucksack and this is well documented.

 

Craig,

 

Do you have any published/documented proof that the shovel is surplus/civilian made? I just want to be sure so I don't end up putting it into my collection as something that it isn't. Everything about the shovel looks very old and original. The rivets do not look like they have been tampered with. If those of you who say its an early WWI version, are you able to find evidence? Thanks. Also, do you have the same for the shovel cover being used on the mountain rucksack? This is originally what I had heard about the cover but I can't substantiate it anywhere. Thanks.

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Your opening a can of worms. Theres been never ending discussions and arguements on the origin of the shovel. Its about an even split between early pre-WWI or a surplus civilian model. Just keep it for now with your military stuff and down the road a picture or paperwork may be found to settle it one way or another, Robert

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Jumpin Jack

I have a short handled shovel in my collection. Stamped in the metal handle supports and the back of the cover are the dates "1943." This has been purported to be a modification made for paratroops. However, I have yet to see a period photo of a paratroop wearing the short handled shovel, only the long. Anyone out there ever see a period photo of the short handle being worn? Jack Angolia

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craig_pickrall
Craig,

 

Do you have any published/documented proof that the shovel is surplus/civilian made? I just want to be sure so I don't end up putting it into my collection as something that it isn't. Everything about the shovel looks very old and original. The rivets do not look like they have been tampered with. If those of you who say its an early WWI version, are you able to find evidence? Thanks. Also, do you have the same for the shovel cover being used on the mountain rucksack? This is originally what I had heard about the cover but I can't substantiate it anywhere. Thanks.

 

 

It can usually be documented if something is military but to document something that is not military can be a lot more difficult. In all likelyhood this shovel was made from surplus parts by a manufacturer or a large surplus distributor. I would not buy one of these shovels if given the chance but if I already had one I would keep it on the outside chance it is good.

 

There are some threads here documenting the cover as MTN RUCK. You can use the search feature to find these.

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It can usually be documented if something is military but to document something that is not military can be a lot more difficult. In all likelyhood this shovel was made from surplus parts by a manufacturer or a large surplus distributor. I would not buy one of these shovels if given the chance but if I already had one I would keep it on the outside chance it is good.

 

There are some threads here documenting the cover as MTN RUCK. You can use the search feature to find these.

 

Craig,

 

My only question about these possibly being surplus is where did they get the metal shovel end if these are truly surplus? The metal shovel end on the majority of WWII shovels was made with metal supporting both sides of the shovel handle. The one I have shows no signs of modification to the metal which tells me that whoever produced it, made it that way with only metal supporting one side. Thus, either the metal shovel portion was original early army made or the surplus sellers produced new metal shovel ends to put on surplus handles. This would not make much sense to me if they were trying to keep costs down. Also, the handles and rivets look to be original without ever being put together (unless it was done right after WWII). Just some things to think about.

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craig_pickrall

What you are saying has all been suggested before. The wood handles for the M1910 and the M1943 were available in abundance after the war. I have never seen a replacement metal spade though. The metal part could have been made for pennies and the finished item sold as garden shovels.

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dartheric1

these were made with the intent that it be used my mountain troops. many normal covers were actually field modified to look like this aswell

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