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EBay Berlin Airlift Uniform

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Does this look right? It has a Berlin Airlift airplane on the occupation bar yet it has Asiatic-Pacific and Philippean Liberation. Is this correct?

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...A:IT&ih=011


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Stars & Stripes Militaria

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I don't see a problem with those three awards. Here is a close up of a ribbon rack that was on a 1950s USAF pilot's coat that I got directly from the vet.

 

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Others can comment if the rest of the coat looks good, but nothing glaring jumped out at me.However it is past my bedtime and I could have missed something!


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" We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. "

View my website honoring the men and women of Indiana: http://indianavets.wix.com/indiana-at-war and follow my updates on Facebook! https://www.facebook.com/IndianaModernAgeofWar/
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Put together. 2 rocker 1st Sgt Chevrons went out in 1942. Berlin Airlift Medal wasn't authorized until 1949. This style jacket and certainly those chevrons wouldn't have been worn that late. Big neat racks of ribbons on WW2 EM uniforms are always suspect to me.

Kurt


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I agree with the put-together assessment. It is possible that the vet added insignia over the years to wear to various functions, but this is not proper for a WWII era display. This coat does not give me a good "gut-feeling".


Ebay Sales: wwii.uniform.collector

 

Auctioneer Website: http://www.cnymilitaria.com

 

Facebook Sales Group

 

 

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This is one of those uniform you can amuse yourself for hours finding things that are wrong. Keep in mind the Berlin Airlift Device was for service between 26 June 1948 and 30 Sep 1949. First, as stated the stripes went out in 1942. Second the AAF collar brass and patch went out in 1947 when the AF split off. Third the uniform has a Ruptured Duck, they had disappeared three years after the war. Fourth, four pockets service coats had been replaced by Ike Jackets by then. Fifth, and I am not sure of this one but was the Army even eligible for the Berlin Airlift Device? Now for some possible but unlikely. Sixth, a 1Sgt would probably not be on flight status that is a desk job. Seven, making the rank of 1Sgt without a Good Conduct Medal is unlikely. Eight, according the the service stripes and the Ruptured Duck (assuming he got out shortly after the war) he was in pre-War and should have the American Defense Ribbon. Nine, it's spelled Air Corps not Aircore, if he can't spell it how can he identify it? Also the description says there is a 5th AF patch, I don't see it in the picture maybe he hasn't sewn it on yet.


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This is one of those uniform you can amuse yourself for hours finding things that are wrong. Keep in mind the Berlin Airlift Device was for service between 26 June 1948 and 30 Sep 1949. First, as stated the stripes went out in 1942. Second the AAF collar brass and patch went out in 1947 when the AF split off. Third the uniform has a Ruptured Duck, they had disappeared three years after the war. Fourth, four pockets service coats had been replaced by Ike Jackets by then. Fifth, and I am not sure of this one but was the Army even eligible for the Berlin Airlift Device? Now for some possible but unlikely. Sixth, a 1Sgt would probably not be on flight status that is a desk job. Seven, making the rank of 1Sgt without a Good Conduct Medal is unlikely. Eight, according the the service stripes and the Ruptured Duck (assuming he got out shortly after the war) he was in pre-War and should have the American Defense Ribbon. Nine, it's spelled Air Corps not Aircore, if he can't spell it how can he identify it? Also the description says there is a 5th AF patch, I don't see it in the picture maybe he hasn't sewn it on yet.

 

QED, You saved me a lot of typing, you are 100% right on. Very bizarre combo, don't know if intentionally faked, but all wrong. There is a good film w/ Montgom,ery Clift, called Airlift?? which was made during that era. Great shot of AAF/USAF persons, most of whom are real soldiers, and none are wearing the tunic by then. Even a shot of a U.S. Army Black band, on the flight line, all in Ike Jackets. At the end of the movie you will see some A.F. guys w/ olive drab Ike jackets with A.F. stripes, but most still have Army stripes which you will see some wearing all the way to the early Korean War on their coveralls.

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QED, You saved me a lot of typing, you are 100% right on. Very bizarre combo, don't know if intentionally faked, but all wrong. There is a good film w/ Montgom,ery Clift, called Airlift?? which was made during that era. Great shot of AAF/USAF persons, most of whom are real soldiers, and none are wearing the tunic by then. Even a shot of a U.S. Army Black band, on the flight line, all in Ike Jackets. At the end of the movie you will see some A.F. guys w/ olive drab Ike jackets with A.F. stripes, but most still have Army stripes which you will see some wearing all the way to the early Korean War on their coveralls.

That Army to independent U.S. Air Force transition took a long time. It was a good 5 or 6 years before uniforms were finally changed over 100 percent and it wasn't until about 1961 or so that the Air Force finally got finished replacing a lot of Army medals & ribbons with ones for the Air Force. I have always thought this period was most interesting in terms of uniforms & insignia used by the Air Force and it was also the same time period that the Army made some radical changes in theirs too.


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That Army to independent U.S. Air Force transition took a long time. It was a good 5 or 6 years before uniforms were finally changed over 100 percent and it wasn't until about 1961 or so that the Air Force finally got finished replacing a lot of Army medals & ribbons with ones for the Air Force. I have always thought this period was most interesting in terms of uniforms & insignia used by the Air Force and it was also the same time period that the Army made some radical changes in theirs too.

 

I know the guy who sold the jacket. He is a 100% good guy. Admittedly, knows nothing about militaria, and is selling off uniforms for a long-time collector. Perhaps the guy he's selling them for baked this, I don't know.

 

Rich


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I know the guy who sold the jacket. He is a 100% good guy. Admittedly, knows nothing about militaria, and is selling off uniforms for a long-time collector. Perhaps the guy he's selling them for baked this, I don't know.

 

Rich

I saw this uniform first hand and in person. There is nothing wrong with this uniform other than the fact it was offered on Ebay. If it were at a yard sale or from an antique shop eveyone would be praisng it. This was coming from a long time collection and to Currahee's point the seller is only brokering the thing.


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If the wings are sterling, the selling price of $79.99 was fine. It's a nice old original jacket that had alot of stuff incorrectly added-on. There's no way it all adds up to something an active duty soldier would have worn at any point in the 1940's - it's all too out of whack. And, if a vet put it together later on, I'd think he would have used 3 rocker 1st Sgt chevrons. But, for $79.99 it's not an issue at all and just doesn't matter.

(unlike all the juiced-up "airborne" Ike's I see poor unknowing souls shelling out big bucks for). Unless there's great documentation and provenance, pay no more than "the sum of the parts," as was done here.

Kurt


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If the wings are sterling, the selling price of $79.99 was fine. It's a nice old original jacket that had alot of stuff incorrectly added-on. There's no way it all adds up to something an active duty soldier would have worn at any point in the 1940's - it's all too out of whack. And, if a vet put it together later on, I'd think he would have used 3 rocker 1st Sgt chevrons. But, for $79.99 it's not an issue at all and just doesn't matter.

(unlike all the juiced-up "airborne" Ike's I see poor unknowing souls shelling out big bucks for). Unless there's great documentation and provenance, pay no more than "the sum of the parts," as was done here.

Kurt

I don't collect Air Corps stuff but have been at this US thing for 30 years, if you had the opportunity to see what I saw you would know that this was nothing on the grand scale of things. This uniform was actually obtained by a volunteer curator at an upstate NY museum who, let's say isn't doing well these days. To write it off because the guy who is selling it doesn't know how to describe military items is criminal.

 

Tell me, without seeing it in person when in your opinion were the ribbons incorrectly added on?


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I don't collect Air Corps stuff but have been at this US thing for 30 years, if you had the opportunity to see what I saw you would know that this was nothing on the grand scale of things. This uniform was actually obtained by a volunteer curator at an upstate NY museum who, let's say isn't doing well these days. To write it off because the guy who is selling it doesn't know how to describe military items is criminal.

 

Tell me, without seeing it in person when in your opinion were the ribbons incorrectly added on?

 

Jake-

My best guess on the ribbons would be March 2nd 1998 at 2:05 PM.

Kurt


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From the slight tilt of the bottom row my guess would be a little closer to 3:00 PM. But you are not far off.


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From the slight tilt of the bottom row my guess would be a little closer to 3:00 PM. But you are not far off.
That's cute, both of you. :D

 

 

Let me send a few pics across this and get your expert opinions then. By the way I sign my first and last name and stand behind my comments.

 

Buckle up!


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I stated that in my opinion this uniform is bogus and listed point by point the reasoning behind that opinion. If you disagree that is your prerogative but the only reason I have seen stated is that you know the seller. I would be very interested in hearing your reasons to believe this uniform is original and proper and would like any faulty reasoning on my part pointed out. I am always ready to learn, that is the reason I am a member of this forum, if I am wrong I am more than willing to admit it.


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Oh yes, I forgot my full name is Gregory L. Spalding, I am 59 years old and have been collecting for something like 45 years now.


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I saw this uniform first hand and in person. There is nothing wrong with this uniform other than the fact it was offered on Ebay. If it were at a yard sale or from an antique shop eveyone would be praisng it. This was coming from a long time collection and to Currahee's point the seller is only brokering the thing.

 

Agreed 100% Jake.

 

The seller is an honest, unsuspecting person. No need to pan-sear him.

 

In regards to jacket's appearances, I would be more concerned if they look 100% right, all nice and neat.

 

I can show two examples of 101st Airborne Ike Jackets in my collection that everyone would say were put - togethers because of their appearance. In essence, they aren't, and came directly from Veteran's (two extremely famous Veterans for that matter).

 

I also have an Ike from a 2nd Ranger Veteran that would fall under the put-together category if posted here. This Hero put 2nd Ranger scrolls on both shoulders - definately not 'a proper WWII display', but in fact, that's what he did.

 

Rich Riley

Age 79

Collecting for 62 years....


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Agreed 100% Jake.

 

The seller is an honest, unsuspecting person. No need to pan-sear him.

 

In regards to jacket's appearances, I would be more concerned if they look 100% right, all nice and neat.

 

I can show two examples of 101st Airborne Ike Jackets in my collection that everyone would say were put - togethers because of their appearance. In essence, they aren't, and came directly from Veteran's (two extremely famous Veterans for that matter).

 

I also have an Ike from a 2nd Ranger Veteran that would fall under the put-together category if posted here. This Hero put 2nd Ranger scrolls on both shoulders - definately not 'a proper WWII display', but in fact, that's what he did.

 

Rich Riley

Age 79

Collecting for 62 years....

 

Here's a perfect example....

 

This is the Ike jacket of a 17th Airborne Veteran, 680th GFAB.

 

Does it look right to everyone??

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The difference between this jacket and the ebay one is the provenance. You can state for a fact that this is how it was worn because you bought it from the vet. The one in the auction has no provenance, and although the seller may be a great guy, he can't show that this isn't a put-together. Even some of the best sellers have sold put-togethers. I know a lot of collectors who sell jackets and they affirmatively state that all isnignia was applied pre-1945. Then, if you research the name, its interesting when the soldier doesn't match up to most of the insignia.

 

 

The seller obviously has a good reputation, but in the end its all about provenance. In a room of collectors, the vote on this will be split. Half will cite examples like yours, while others will nay-say it. In the end, if the buyer is happy with it, thats all that matters. Personally, I think this jacket is only worth the sum of the parts because of the problems that have been already stated. It has already been said that there are better jackets to have if you want one for your collection. This one will always have the stigma of being questioned.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

Justin

Collecting 4 years...


Ebay Sales: wwii.uniform.collector

 

Auctioneer Website: http://www.cnymilitaria.com

 

Facebook Sales Group

 

 

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Here's a perfect example....

 

This is the Ike jacket of a 17th Airborne Veteran, 680th GFAB.

 

Does it look right to everyone??

 

I see nothing on the 82nd A/B Ike that would make me question it.

Kurt


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I see nothing on the 82nd A/B Ike that would make me question it.

Kurt

 

 

Hmmmm....

 

Other than the fact it belonged to a 17th AB Glider Rider?

 

Jump Wings instead of Glider Wings?

 

No 17th patch?

 

101st AB Parade scarf?


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Hmmmm....

 

Other than the fact it belonged to a 17th AB Glider Rider?

 

Jump Wings instead of Glider Wings?

 

No 17th patch?

 

101st AB Parade scarf?

With transfers in and out of units, anything is possible. The USAAF 1st Sgt jacket is a totally different situation.

I hereby officially withdraw from the debate. I got nuthin' more to give.

Kurt


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