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Makin Raiders Helmet Covers


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Intrestng picture.Wonder if the trousers are the navy work denims??

 

Thanks for posting

 

RD

In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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I read a book on the Makin Raid that mentioned a lot of Marines dying their khakis black for the mission. Might be the explanation for the dark pants.

Looking for the following:

452nd and 447th Bomb Group items

Anything 12th Armored- especially uniforms

155th Assault Helicopter Company, Camp Coryell, or Ban Me Thuot Vietnam items[/center]


WWII US Navy Uniforms from the Battle Off Samar: USS Johnston DD-557, USS Hoel DD-553, USS Samuel B. Roberts DE-413, USS Heermann DD-532, USS Dennis DE-405, USS John C. Butler DE-339, USS Raymond DE-341, USS Fanshaw Bay St. Lo, White Plains, Kalinin Bay, Kitkun Bay and Gambier Bay...


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I read a book on the Makin Raid that mentioned a lot of Marines dying their khakis black for the mission. Might be the explanation for the dark pants.

 

That would make sense, too. Here is another period photo. Britches are fairly dark, too; however, I don't know for sure if these guys are Raiders. There was no caption to go with the photo.

 

PS I love the blade!

 

post-70-1276420823.jpg

GB

 

 

 

 

 

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Hey guys,

 

They are burlap, or hessian covers. I'm led to believe that 1st or 2nd battalion raiders (for Makin or Tulagi) were issued 16 inch square cuttings of burlap prior to the above operations. Raiders are seen to be wearing these on a number of operations. Edson and his officers wore them on Guadalcanal, Carlson's raiders on Makin (as GB's photo shows. It was actually taken on the Nautilus) Mike Strank (can't remember were though) and W. Heumann on Guadalcanal, Bougainville and Iwo Jima.

 

Hope this helps.

 

I'll try and scan some photos for later.

 

Will

WWII USMC & USN - CAMOUFLAGE / CORPSMAN / PARAMARINE / MARINE RAIDER / DENIM / DECK JACKETS.

 

VIETNAM - CAMOUFLAGE / SF / 'IN-COUNTRY' ITEMS.

 

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I read a book on the Makin Raid that mentioned a lot of Marines dying their khakis black for the mission. Might be the explanation for the dark pants.

 

This is also true.

 

However, it is still heavily debated as to whether 'black khakis' were worn on the Makin raid. Raiders were ordered to hand in 1 set of dungarees (HBTs) or khakis prior to embarkation for Makin. They were then dyed in 50 gallon drums and given back to the marines prior to the raid. The intended use was for night operations. However, there are very few photos taken during the raid and no one actually has evidence of them being worn. There are a series of photos taken after the raid when the marines returned to Pearl Harbor and numerous pairs of black khakis can be seen. I'm led to believe by informed sources, that in interviews with 2nd battalion raiders, that none recalled wearing them on the raid because they felt uncomfortable after being dyed.

 

Having looked at the above photo, I think the marines HBTs are just very dirty and not dyed. There are examples of black khakis still in existence, both dungaree jackets and khaki shirts. I had the privelage of handling one very recently.

 

I'm currently researching the 2nd Raider Battalions actions on Makin and if anyone has any information on the above, I'd love to hear from you.

WWII USMC & USN - CAMOUFLAGE / CORPSMAN / PARAMARINE / MARINE RAIDER / DENIM / DECK JACKETS.

 

VIETNAM - CAMOUFLAGE / SF / 'IN-COUNTRY' ITEMS.

 

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Gunbarrel:

Thanks for posting those pics; there was some discussion on another thread about whether the large-mesh nets were used much in the War, and the second photo proves it (there's another shot of some Raiders making a sneak landing on Puruata, and the guy in the rear is rigged up identically to the guy at lower right in your pic- could be the same guy...?). I've got some pictorial histories at home which show them in use by both Army and Marine personnel. That picture is also in the 3rdMarDiv Unit History, but it doesn't say what Battalion these guys were with; could've been either Raiders or 3rd Division :think:

Support our troops...abandoning the War on Terror is not an affordable luxury.

I'm so old, I still call W.W.II U.S. militaria "war surplus".

 

God's blessings in the Name of our Lord Jesus- Jim Robertson

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Gunbarrel:

Thanks for posting those pics; there was some discussion on another thread about whether the large-mesh nets were used much in the War, and the second photo proves it (there's another shot of some Raiders making a sneak landing on Puruata, and the guy in the rear is rigged up identically to the guy at lower right in your pic- could be the same guy...?). I've got some pictorial histories at home which show them in use by both Army and Marine personnel. That picture is also in the 3rdMarDiv Unit History, but it doesn't say what Battalion these guys were with; could've been either Raiders or 3rd Division :think:

 

Flage,

 

Was hoping you'd contribute to the discussion :)

 

The second photo GB posted, I think is a theatre produced net. If you look closely at the structure of the netting it's ad-hoc and not matching. Raiders were famous for making all kinds of crazy covers from string and wire and I think this could be one of them. Here's a photo of Mike Strank with what I'm led to believe is a burlap cover and wire net:

 

 

post-5339-1276458163.gif

WWII USMC & USN - CAMOUFLAGE / CORPSMAN / PARAMARINE / MARINE RAIDER / DENIM / DECK JACKETS.

 

VIETNAM - CAMOUFLAGE / SF / 'IN-COUNTRY' ITEMS.

 

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I think I have seen japanese helmet nets used also.

 

Wanted to add the picture od Sgt,Strank is credited to Bouganville if I recall correctly.

 

RD

In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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It's no wonder the Makin Raiders didn't have much documentation, they were lucky to escape with their lives battling that tide. The book I read was "Carlson's Raid" and it went into great detail about the numerous attempts made to escape the island. Seems to me that if the Makin Raiders were wearing their black clothing on the way home, it's probably because they didn't take it with them. I know thy lost most of the equipment that they took, I don't imagine their uniforms fared much better as they probably shucked at least their shirts to swim. I'm sure not purporting to be an expert, just concurring whole-heartedly!

Looking for the following:

452nd and 447th Bomb Group items

Anything 12th Armored- especially uniforms

155th Assault Helicopter Company, Camp Coryell, or Ban Me Thuot Vietnam items[/center]


WWII US Navy Uniforms from the Battle Off Samar: USS Johnston DD-557, USS Hoel DD-553, USS Samuel B. Roberts DE-413, USS Heermann DD-532, USS Dennis DE-405, USS John C. Butler DE-339, USS Raymond DE-341, USS Fanshaw Bay St. Lo, White Plains, Kalinin Bay, Kitkun Bay and Gambier Bay...


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Ron: You got it: U.S. Troops' use of the enemy's "liberated" goodies is very well documented. Unlike those of us who collect their old stuff, they didn't give a rip about where it was made or if it had "U.S.", etc. stamped on it :lol::lol:

 

Will, that's the best version of that Strank photo I've seen yet; and he's carrying an M55 Reising S.M.G. :w00t: :w00t:

Support our troops...abandoning the War on Terror is not an affordable luxury.

I'm so old, I still call W.W.II U.S. militaria "war surplus".

 

God's blessings in the Name of our Lord Jesus- Jim Robertson

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Garandomatic: You're absolutely right there, I (personally) think they wore them on the return trip and kept them on the subs as a spare uniform.

 

Flage: I can't take credit for that picture being my own unfortunately (should really have listed the source when I posted it!) if you do a Google search for Mike Strank, it's one of the first results :) Ron, I think you're right with the picture being taken on Bougainville!

 

For those requiring further info on Marine Raider covers, check out Grunt Gear for some excellent documentation. A lot of my above info stemmed from there :)

WWII USMC & USN - CAMOUFLAGE / CORPSMAN / PARAMARINE / MARINE RAIDER / DENIM / DECK JACKETS.

 

VIETNAM - CAMOUFLAGE / SF / 'IN-COUNTRY' ITEMS.

 

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Very cool pics...! One of my relatives was actually KIA during the earlier air raids (Feb. 1, 1942) on Milli, Makin, and Jaluit. He was a TBD Devastator pilot off of the Yorktown and was lost along with a few other planes.... They never found him, still out there somewhere.... Francis Xavier Maher was his name, Annapolis graduate, class of 1935 I think. Chris

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Thanks, everybody. I'm glad that the pictures generated a lot of discussion. For those not familiar with the Japanese helmet nets, here is a picture of Japanese paratroopers wearing them.

 

post-70-1276471046.jpg

GB

 

 

 

 

 

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I agree on the burlap material. I believe there is also an example in Grunt Gear that has a burlap base material with what looks like pieces of tattered khaki/tan shirt material. I made a cover up similar to this for a mannequin Raider display. Thanks for posting the photo.

 

You're absolutely right. I have always thought that the covering was HBT material dyed brown. If you look at the picture with a magnifying glass, you can just about see the weave. Would love to see your mannequin helmet! :)

WWII USMC & USN - CAMOUFLAGE / CORPSMAN / PARAMARINE / MARINE RAIDER / DENIM / DECK JACKETS.

 

VIETNAM - CAMOUFLAGE / SF / 'IN-COUNTRY' ITEMS.

 

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This is also true.

 

However, it is still heavily debated as to whether 'black khakis' were worn on the Makin raid. Raiders were ordered to hand in 1 set of dungarees (HBTs) or khakis prior to embarkation for Makin. They were then dyed in 50 gallon drums and given back to the marines prior to the raid. The intended use was for night operations. However, there are very few photos taken during the raid and no one actually has evidence of them being worn. There are a series of photos taken after the raid when the marines returned to Pearl Harbor and numerous pairs of black khakis can be seen. I'm led to believe by informed sources, that in interviews with 2nd battalion raiders, that none recalled wearing them on the raid because they felt uncomfortable after being dyed.

 

Having looked at the above photo, I think the marines HBTs are just very dirty and not dyed. There are examples of black khakis still in existence, both dungaree jackets and khaki shirts. I had the privelage of handling one very recently.

 

I'm currently researching the 2nd Raider Battalions actions on Makin and if anyone has any information on the above, I'd love to hear from you.

 

Corpsmancollector,

 

I think this may be one of the photos you were talking about.

 

post-70-1276511659.jpg

GB

 

 

 

 

 

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That's the one GB! There's a Number of photos from the same series, some of them show Nimitz standing on the dock as the subs come in. There are numerous raiders wearing black khakis :)

 

Are these photos from your personal collection?

WWII USMC & USN - CAMOUFLAGE / CORPSMAN / PARAMARINE / MARINE RAIDER / DENIM / DECK JACKETS.

 

VIETNAM - CAMOUFLAGE / SF / 'IN-COUNTRY' ITEMS.

 

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  • 9 years later...

somewhere, cannot rember what book about the Makin raid, some marines took fatigues off during their swim off island. the fatigues became torn up during operation, with rough surf and tide made difficult swim to sub. The sub is a tiny vessel, why would they have these dyed fatigues ? could the dyed uniforms be the ones given to marines prior to landing on island and not worn ? ?

 

another bit about dyed fatigues that I was told too from someone who was at Guadalcanal.

there was an island off Guadalcanal that raiders were sent to horas the enemy , my now deceased friend who was raider, said some had dyed fatigues, some had burlap helmet covers, but this did not matter to conceal them. because the japanese were waiting and he said the raiders got shot up pretty bad, the raid did not go as plan, they were lucky to survive

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