Paul Tibbets Senior Wings????

[Bobertizkewl]

Hi,

 

I am new to this forum and this is my first post! I just got these wings in the mail today. I got them from a man who said he got them from a man who said that Paul Tibbets gave them to him. They are Senior Pilot wings that are about 2 1/2 inches long. On the back they say in the top right corner "N.S. MEYER. INC and then "NEW YORK" and then "STERLING" and they have 2 Meyer shields in the top left. And finally they are engraved "P. TIBBETS 1945". The wings also had different clutch back clutches then I am used to seeing as you can see in one of the pictures. I think these are authentic Meyer wings but I want to know what everybody else thinks about if they could have been Paul Tibbets wings. I will post pictures once I get them the right size.

 

 

Thanks for the help,

John

[Bob Hudson]

I have read that Paul Tibbets signed anything and everything and these could well be some wings he bought to hand out or sell.

[Bobertizkewl]

Here are pictures of the front and back.

 

 

Thanks,

John

[Bobertizkewl]

And finally here's a better picture of the back and another picture of the wings with the unusual clutches on them. I can take more pictures if you want to see a special part on them or something.

 

 

 

Thanks,

John

[gwb123]

I can understand engraving the name on them, but why engrave the date?

 

Tibbets served in the military from 1937 to 1936.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Tibbets

 

And yes, I know, he dropped the Atomic Bomb in 1945. But there is something that just does not ring true about these. Why not used to space to engrave his full name of Paul Tibbets?

 

Also, this engraving looks very fresh. If they were his wings I doubt that they were ever worn. There is no smoothing to the engraving or any tarnish either.

[MikeK]

Hi John,

 

The Meyer shield on the left looks like a 22-M marking? If so, these wings would be dated to the late 60s. Where that leaves the engraving and the story is not for me to say.

 

Regards

Mike

[Bobertizkewl]

The reason there is no tarnish on these is because the previous owner said he polished them frequently.

 

 

 

John

[Bobertizkewl]

Ok,

After closer examination of the wings, it IS a 22-M shield next to the Meyer shield so these are late 60's Meyer wings. So now that we know the era of the wings, do you think these wings could be wings he handed out at airshows or something to commemorate the year they dropped the bomb? Or are these just plain fakes? I think it would make sense if he handed these out at airshows because the engraving is not smooth because they wouldn't be worn by the person he gave them out to. What do you guys think?

 

EDIT: Another thing, in 1976 Paul Tibbets reenacted the bombing at an airshow so that year matches the era of the wings so maybe these wings have something to do with the reenactment, like maybe he wore the wings then or handed them out or something.

 

 

 

 

Thanks,

John

[gwb123]

Having these made up to hand out to friends and admirers certainly seems plausible.

 

Check out this website with items bearing his autograph:

 

http://www.enolagay.org/

 

You will note the name on this site appears to be that of a relative. Perhaps you could drop her a line and copies of the photos to see if she knows anything about these.

 

Also, how about a B-29 with Tibbets' autograph?

 

http://www.aikensairplanes.com/mahogany/zz...tibbetsb-29.htm

[4STARCHRIS]

 

This pic is circ 1940's with the wings you mention.

He wore Command pilot wings upon retirement.

I knew General Tibbets and had seen him at numerous functions and signing. I never knew himm to pass out engraved wings.

Just my 2 cents worth.

4starchris

[MikeK]

 

This pic is circ 1940's with the wings you mention.

 

Interesting pic!!

 

I'm assuming he'd just made bird colonel? If I'd seen those eagles on eBay, I'd have said they were fakes :hapy0003:

 

Regards

Mike

[BILL THE PATCH]

hi, how about my two cents worth, do you really think he would hand out real sterling wings? i mean even though it was the 60's how many would he afford to have made up. it still would have cost alot. though i see with a well known war hero maybe he did have the backing for real sterling wings, puzzleing :think:

[Jack's Son]

I can understand engraving the name on them, but why engrave the date?

 

Tibbets served in the military from 1937 to 1936.

 

Hey Gil,

I'm wondering how he pulled off the "reverse service" ? :think:

Is that anything like a reverse mortgage? :pinch:

[Bobertizkewl]

I still think they have something to do with him reenacting the bombing in 1976.

 

 

 

 

 

John

[gwb123]

hi, how about my two cents worth, do you really think he would hand out real sterling wings? i mean even though it was the 60's how many would he afford to have made up. it still would have cost alot. though i see with a well known war hero maybe he did have the backing for real sterling wings, puzzleing :think:

 

The price of silver was a lot cheaper in the 1960's and early 1970's. In 1971 it was $1.55 per ounce. That would make the price of sterling wings a lot less than they would be today.

 

http://www.silverinstitute.org/19711978.php

 

Keep in mind also he may have reserved these for someone he really intended to impress. He was after all a retired General Officer at this point and as such a certain level of class and decorum would be expected, especially when dealing with dignitaries.

[B-29Gunner]

Weren't these wings on eBay recently??

[rustywings]

Weren't these wings on eBay recently??

 

I agree with B-29Gunner. I saw these wings, or ones just like them, listed on ebay a couple of weeks ago...and thought at the time the offer was complete bull. Don't you think if General Tibbets had anything to do with making commemorative wings, he would have used WWII style three-inch pilot wings with the complete inscription date of August 6, 1945? I believe this 1970's to 1980's produced two-inch USAF pilot wing, with a partial inscription which has no reference to rank, location, or specific date, is nothing more than bait to lure an unsuspecting buyer.

Russ

[CliffP]

:blushing:

 

Bully for you Russ. Just like Joe Friday was known to do, that's called shooting straight and true. For anyone to buy something such as that based on hearsay and wishful thinking rather than with valid documentation to back-up such claims is a gamble that more often than not will only lead to frustration or heartbreak.

 

Unfortunately, another fact is that while only trying to be helpful, folks who risk delivering such a message often end up getting shot in return and I have wounds to prove it. Welcome to the club my friend; it was getting lonely in here.

 

Oh, do you know anybody who might be interested in buying Hitler’s mustache?

 

Cliff :crying:

[4STARCHRIS]

:blushing:

 

Bully for you Russ. Just like Joe Friday was known to do, that's called shooting straight and true. For anyone to buy something such as that based on hearsay and wishful thinking rather than with valid documentation to back-up such claims is a gamble that more often than not will only lead to frustration or heartbreak.

 

Unfortunately, another fact is that while only trying to be helpful, folks who risk delivering such a message often end up getting shot in return and I have wounds to prove it. Welcome to the club my friend; it was getting lonely in here.

 

Oh, do you know anybody who might be interested in buying Hitler’s mustache?

 

Cliff :crying:

 

 

Cliff, Russ,

I agree with you guys as I mentioned in post #10. Never saw the general ever give out wings, EVER. No stunt, no publicity type guy.

4starchris

[1stDivVet]

Oh, do you know anybody who might be interested in buying Hitler’s mustache?

 

Cliff :crying:

 

I think Michael Jordan has it now. He wears it in his new Hanes commercial! :w00t:

 

Fins...

 

(sorry.. couldn't resist!)

[rustywings]

John,

Please don't take my statements in post #17 as a personal attack. Every hobbyist out there with a little tenure has tread through a similar mine field of collecting dangers. The reproductions, forgeries, and scams in this field seem endless. I have a cigar box full of my own wing and patch mistakes from years of collecting. I've also been fortunate enough to collect some nice original aviation badges which helps to counter-balance and subdue the disappointments housed in that cigar box.

 

When you have a few minutes, go to the pinned topics section at the top of the wing face page and take a look at "Examples Of Fake, Fantasy & Reproduction Wings." Check out post #7, #49, #92 and #107. Notice the similarities in those fake examples and your inscribed wing. There's a wealth of honest knowledgeable collectors monitoring this Forum. I'm sure they can answer questions that might arise.

 

Russ

[pfrost]

I agree with B-29Gunner. I saw these wings, or ones just like them, listed on ebay a couple of weeks ago...and thought at the time the offer was complete bull. Don't you think if General Tibbets had anything to do with making commemorative wings, he would have used WWII style three-inch pilot wings with the complete inscription date of August 6, 1945? I believe this 1970's to 1980's produced two-inch USAF pilot wing, with a partial inscription which has no reference to rank, location, or specific date, is nothing more than bait to lure an unsuspecting buyer.

Russ

 

 

This is an interesting thread. I suspect that the truth may lie some where between the extremes. My feeling is that they are more than likely some sort of souvenir wing that could have been bought in a museum gift shop or air show souvenir booth. "Buy a genuine pair of USAF solid silver wings engraved with the name of a famous pilot!" type deal--think the Franklin Mint type series of collectibles.

 

As for the reason why it only had "1945" and "P. Tibbets" engraved on it is that I would suspect if you were paying for engraving the wing, to keep your costs low, that is the LEAST amount of information you could put on the wing and still keep it reasonably interesting to a collector. Engraving more (especially if this was for a bulk number of items) would just cut into your bottom line.

 

Frankly, I don't think that this wing was made to deceive anyone, or had any real or direct association with Gen Tibbets. It is what it is.

 

Patrick

[pconrad02]

Patrick,

 

I have to disagree with you on this one, that "engraving" looks like the work of the same fakers who did the wings in the aforementioned posts. They did all kinds of famous people along with a run of fantasy engravings. I don't remember this one, but they did do others on this type ( age) of wing.

 

Paul

[pfrost]

Patrick,

 

I have to disagree with you on this one, that "engraving" looks like the work of the same fakers who did the wings in the aforementioned posts. They did all kinds of famous people along with a run of fantasy engravings. I don't remember this one, but they did do others on this type ( age) of wing.

 

Paul

 

Howdy Paul,

 

You could be correct. But those fake engraved wings are usually pretty bad with the engraving frequently looking like it was done with a nail. I have a whole series of them posted here on my webpage here: http://pfrost.bol.ucla.edu/Fakes_Blog/Entr...akes_wings.html. This looks like a basic machine engraved current issue wing. I have seen similar type things for events like a CAF (Confederate Air Force) air show, et al.

 

But in any case, I suspect it has nothing at all to do with Paul Tibbets in any way than using his name. I would doubt he gave them out, authorized them, or actually had any contact with them at all.

 

In fact, correct me if I am wrong, but can't you find something like this at the US National Air and Space Museum gift shop? I seem to recall seeing something like this a long time ago?

[Dave]

Here's a question - why would Tibbets hand out a Senior Pilot wing when he was a rated Command Pilot? Seems like an awful lot of thought going into a pair of wings "well, I was a senior pilot for part of 1945, so let me engrave my name on a pair of wings and then hand out senior pilot wings...." That's akin to a retired general officer saying "Just call me Colonel, because I was a Colonel once..." Doesn't make any sense at all...

 

Dave