A question about the brown/chocolate ties of ww2

[Jamecharles]

Hi all again ,

i've some questions about the chocolate/ brown ww2 ties:

how many models where mades? and what kind of woven where used for them? if you have some photos post them

thank you so much!

Giancarlo

Italy

[GIl Sanow]

Hi all again ,

i've some questions about the chocolate/ brown ww2 ties:

how many models where mades? and what kind of woven where used for them? if you have some photos post them

thank you so much!

Giancarlo

Italy

 

To my knowledge, only khaki (shade 33) neckties were issued to GI's from '42 on through the early postwar period. Previoously, neckties were black. Afterwards necties were chocolate (shade 22).

[Nack]

To my knowledge, only khaki (shade 33) neckties were issued to GI's from '42 on through the early postwar period. Previoously, neckties were black. Afterwards necties were chocolate (shade 22).

 

This is a question I have had too. The excellent book on AAf uniforms entitled "Silver Wings, Pinks and Greens" shows the chocolate tie being used during the war.

[QED4]

Enlisted men wore khaki ties during WWII. Officers however did wear the dark drab ties with the dark shirt and tan ties with the tan shirt or at least that was the way they were supposed to do it but you often see pictures with the dark tie with the tan shirt an vise versa. Since officers had to purchase their own uniforms there were as many variations of the tie as there were makers, all the same and all a little different. Enlisted men switched to the dark tie post-war, 1949 I think but not sure of the date with out looking it up. Now to something I have wondered about for a long time, why do people insist on referring to these uniforms a "Chocolate" they are green not brown which is why they are referred to as "Pinks and Greens" or "Olive Drab" the official name is Drab, Dark Shade. If you bought a Hershey Bar and when you opened it found it was that colour would you eat it? I don't know what sort of chocolate you people are getting but mine is brown.

[Lee Ragan]

QED4,

I've wondered the same thing myself about the "chocolate", term. I think it's like the "crusher", term collectors are now so fond of using in that both were made up by collectors. Years ago, when I first started collecting militaria, everyone seemed to refer to the officers winter uniform as being dark olive or brown. Service caps with the crush look were called "50 mission crush", hats. (Heck that's what we called them when I was in the Air Force back in the 60's.) How about the term "Bomber Jacket"? Prior to about 1980, everyone refered to them as flight jackets.

This hobby is like all others in that slang terms come into use and people just pick up on them and the term becomes accepted as normal. Makes life interesting I guess!

[craig_pickrall]

Wasn't there a style of collapsible hat sold during WW2 that had the brand name Crusher?

 

I think the term Bomber Jacket came into use when the civilian clothing makers started selling cheap versions of Flight Jackets and called them Bomber Jackets. You can easily find Bomber Jackets at mid-priced clothing stores today but I don't think you see the term Flight Jacket except on the more expensive and well made leather jackets sold through mail order clothing houses.

[Gregory]

Situation with black ties is not so easy to describe it quickly and precisely. Black ties did not disappear suddenly after Pearl Harbor. Well into 1942 black ties were still worn. Here is a picture taken in July 1942 in Ireland.

[Cavdoc83]

Situation with black ties is not so easy to describe it quickly and precisely. Black ties did not disappear suddenly after Pearl Harbor. Well into 1942 black ties were still worn. Here is a picture taken in July 1942 in Ireland.

 

Boy, there's a guy who's happy with his job! "Join the Army! Every day's a holiday!"

[doyler]

Boy, there's a guy who's happy with his job! "Join the Army! Every day's a holiday!"

 

 

 

I wouldnt be very happy if I had to climb a utility pole with all that extra gear and wool uniform to boot!!!!(Im sure its a inspection photo but I cant imagine having to climb with that set up.)The belt ang gaffs havent changed much other than lighter material options.

 

RD

[Gregory]

Boy, there's a guy who's happy with his job! "Join the Army! Every day's a holiday!"

Oh yes, he seems to be very, very happy...

[Gregory]

Camp San Luis Obispo, September 1942 -- black ties still in use.

[gpw_42]

Back to the OP, my 1942 "Officer's Guide" states that an officer will buy one "neckties, cotton, khaki" in the list of an infantry officer's uniforms and equipment to be purchased (p. 128). There is no listing for a dark shade (chocolate, or green) necktie, or discussion (which I can find) of when to/not to wear them. Clearly, period photos show that they were widely worn...but I'm beginning to wonder if that was more of an air corps thing than in the ground branches?

 

Gregory, thanks for the pic from Camp San Luis Obispo! Is that 1.5 ton Chevy backed up to those troops?

 

Steve

[Gregory]

Hi Steve,

 

Back to the OP, my 1942 "Officer's Guide" states that an officer will buy one "neckties, cotton, khaki" in the list of an infantry officer's uniforms and equipment to be purchased (p. 128). There is no listing for a dark shade (chocolate, or green) necktie, or discussion (which I can find) of when to/not to wear them. Clearly, period photos show that they were widely worn...but I'm beginning to wonder if that was more of an air corps thing than in the ground branches?

As always there is a difference between theory of regulations and real life practice. Today every reenactor must research indepthly period photos of the unit he reenacts to wear proper tie. The Officer's Guide, 9th Edition of July 1942, stated as follows:

 

"The necktie for officers, warrant officers, and enlisted men is of a material without stripe or figure, of cotton, mohair, olive-drab, No. 3..."

 

But as can be seen in period photos distribution of OD#3 ties depended on region of the world and unit. Black ties were worn up to 3rd or 4th quarter of 1942.

 

Gregory, thanks for the pic from Camp San Luis Obispo! Is that 1.5 ton Chevy backed up to those troops?

I am not soft skin trucks expert but may post a little more of that image.

[Gregory]

January 1943 -- black ties still in use.

[Jamecharles]

brown ties were rare but there are few examples of them used in war time period, one for all is the famous actor Clark Gable

or this General officer

 

i must admit that the full chocolate dress is not bad

 

Uploaded with No_outside_hosting.ustie i'm using in this photo is marked Wembley , a famous marking in 40s

 

anyway i've seen any kind of personal issue of tie in original ww2 photos, also some medic officers wearing MAROON TIE instead of black tie on blue dress uniforms.... or major officers wearing a civilian tie on blue dress set.... i believe they think: ''follow the rules but not forgive your preferences''

[USMCRECON]

Enlisted men wore khaki ties during WWII. Officers however did wear the dark drab ties with the dark shirt and tan ties with the tan shirt or at least that was the way they were supposed to do it but you often see pictures with the dark tie with the tan shirt an vise versa. Since officers had to purchase their own uniforms there were as many variations of the tie as there were makers, all the same and all a little different. Enlisted men switched to the dark tie post-war, 1949 I think but not sure of the date with out looking it up. Now to something I have wondered about for a long time, why do people insist on referring to these uniforms a "Chocolate" they are green not brown which is why they are referred to as "Pinks and Greens" or "Olive Drab" the official name is Drab, Dark Shade. If you bought a Hershey Bar and when you opened it found it was that colour would you eat it? I don't know what sort of chocolate you people are getting but mine is brown.

To throw some more wood on the fire, I have a couple Army Air Force officer's "pinks and greens" where ther blouses are, in fact, a shade I would call brown rather than green.

[USMCRECON]

Boy, there's a guy who's happy with his job! "Join the Army! Every day's a holiday!"

Perhaps he's not fond of Guinness!

[Jamecharles]

Hi USMCRec. If your tunic Is more Green than chocolate it's probably early war (late 30s early 40s), those "early" officers tunics were mainly Made in greenish color that is the reason why we know the famous phrase : " pink & green" and not chocolate & green

Anyway many tailors used different shade of dark OD during the war, many of them were brown and other similar to the green

Gs

[Gregory]

I'm beginning to wonder if that was more of an air corps thing than in the ground branches?

 

The question of black neckties is even more complicated. They did not disappear late 1941 or early 1942 as majority of forumers write here. Early to mid war they were still in use but it depended on situation as well. The Officer's Guide of 1942 (9th Edition I have) writes as follows:

 

When acting as aide to high officials (p. 134)

Shirt, khaki, and black necktie.

 

Regards

Gregory

[J_Andrews]

An 8th AF vet once told me that the LOCAL R U L E was that officers had to wear a tie that CONTRASTED with his shirt. That is, Shade 51 (dark olive or "chocolate") shirt, "pink"tie. Olive drab shirt, "pink" tie. He thought this was to make officers identifiable at a greater distance, what with airbase people walking around in flight jackets, field jackets, sweaters, flight suits and so on.

 

He also pointed out that "pink" trousers were rarely worn, again by 8th AF SOP, because there was now dry cleaning service available. "Pink" trous were saved for best dress. He often worn Shade 51 trousers with OD (not "chocolate") shirt and "pink" tie, with either a Shade 51 crusher service cap or "overseas" cap of same color. Off base, off duty shirtsleeves were against the rules, jackets required.

[doinworkinvans]

An 8th AF vet once told me that the LOCAL R U L E was that officers had to wear a tie that CONTRASTED with his shirt. That is, Shade 51 (dark olive or "chocolate") shirt, "pink"tie. Olive drab shirt, "pink" tie. He thought this was to make officers identifiable at a greater distance, what with airbase people walking around in flight jackets, field jackets, sweaters, flight suits and so on.

 

He also pointed out that "pink" trousers were rarely worn, again by 8th AF SOP, because there was now dry cleaning service available. "Pink" trous were saved for best dress. He often worn Shade 51 trousers with OD (not "chocolate") shirt and "pink" tie, with either a Shade 51 crusher service cap or "overseas" cap of same color. Off base, off duty shirtsleeves were against the rules, jackets required.

 

Yep you hit the nail on the head...this is my rule of thumb I go by and have heard most.

[Gregory]

In fact in the US Army of WWII era black neckties were worn well into 1943 -- at least up to mid-1943 if not later and it can be proven from historical photographs. All self-respecting reenactors must remember about it and do not believe in various theories that late 1941 or early 1942 all black neckties were switched at once on khaki ones. That's a good subject to research for all "khaki nazis" in the reenactment community.

[Gregory]

Black tie never dies!

 

Here are the B-24 crews based near London, August 30, 1943

 

 

[Gregory]

Close up

 

 

[doinworkinvans]

Was it just preference for which hat your wore too??!!