seanmc1114 Posted December 21, 2013 Share #1101 Posted December 21, 2013 Unnumbered armor triangle being worn by a basic trainee at Fort Knox - January 1961. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanmc1114 Posted December 21, 2013 Share #1102 Posted December 21, 2013 Another shot of the unnumbered armor triangle being worn by a different basic trainee at Fort Knox - January 1961. But notice he is also wearing Infantry branch collar insignia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanmc1114 Posted December 21, 2013 Share #1103 Posted December 21, 2013 Unnumbered armor triangle being worn by a basic trainee at Fort Knox - January 1961. Another shot of the unnumbered armor triangle being worn by a different basic trainee at Fort Knox - January 1961. But notice he is also wearing Infantry branch collar insignia. I believe both of these insignia represent the Armor Center. However, neither has a tab as authorized by the Institute of heraldry http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Catalog/HeraldryMulti.aspx?CategoryId=6998&grp=2&menu=Uniformed%20Services. My question is whether this was standard for basic trainees of the era or if the wear of the tab was optional. And what is the difference between the Armor center and the Armor School? I have also seen a tab that reads "USATC Armor" as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanmc1114 Posted December 21, 2013 Share #1104 Posted December 21, 2013 Ryukyus Command worn by a very long serving Corporal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanmc1114 Posted December 21, 2013 Share #1105 Posted December 21, 2013 Ryukyus Command worn by a very long serving Corporal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanmc1114 Posted December 21, 2013 Share #1106 Posted December 21, 2013 Kiska Task Force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patches Posted December 21, 2013 Share #1107 Posted December 21, 2013 I believe both of these insignia represent the Armor Center. However, neither has a tab as authorized by the Institute of heraldry http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Catalog/HeraldryMulti.aspx?CategoryId=6998&grp=2&menu=Uniformed%20Services. My question is whether this was standard for basic trainees of the era or if the wear of the tab was optional. And what is the difference between the Armor center and the Armor School? I have also seen a tab that reads "USATC Armor" as well. For the 60s the tabs for either two were most likely worn by the Cadre only, Drill Sergeants and Range Intructors within The USATC, and The Armor School, and Staff and Support Personel of these two entities. The Tabs. USATC was the the actual School that gave Basic, while the Armor Center was the main Branch think tank ( no pun intended ) The Center, which dealt with Training and Organization within TO&E Armor units, looked at Doctrines, dealt with new gear and it's uses, proposals for new gear, new Tanks, AFVs etc, a whole bunch of stuff directly related to Armor, thus it would be these people in this department, the Commanding General, who I believe commanded the whole post and the other two departments, the Staffs and Support Personel that would be wearing this particular The Armor Center tab. The Armor School was the group that conducted Armor Branch AIT, Tank Crewman, Armor Reconnaissance Scout. The one with the Inf disc was more than likely a Infantry MOS bound Trainee, Fort Knox despite it's association with Armor etc, had a regular Basic Training program that had Trainees who would go on to all differant MOS AITs after basic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefighter Posted December 21, 2013 Share #1108 Posted December 21, 2013 Kiska Task Force Nice pic.Goes to show the patch was worn on both sleeves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wailuna Posted December 22, 2013 Share #1109 Posted December 22, 2013 A first first sighting for 77th Division on this thread: Major General Robert Alexander, C.G., 77th Division from August 27, 1918, until the division was demobilized at Camp Upton, N.Y., ca. May 9, 1919. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanmc1114 Posted December 22, 2013 Share #1110 Posted December 22, 2013 For the 60s the tabs for either two were most likely worn by the Cadre only, Drill Sergeants and Range Intructors within The USATC, and The Armor School, and Staff and Support Personel of these two entities. The Tabs. USATC was the the actual School that gave Basic, while the Armor Center was the main Branch think tank ( no pun intended ) The Center, which dealt with Training and Organization within TO&E Armor units, looked at Doctrines, dealt with new gear and it's uses, proposals for new gear, new Tanks, AFVs etc, a whole bunch of stuff directly related to Armor, thus it would be these people in this department, the Commanding General, who I believe commanded the whole post and the other two departments, the Staffs and Support Personel that would be wearing this particular The Armor Center tab. The Armor School was the group that conducted Armor Branch AIT, Tank Crewman, Armor Reconnaissance Scout. The one with the Inf disc was more than likely a Infantry MOS bound Trainee, Fort Knox despite it's association with Armor etc, had a regular Basic Training program that had Trainees who would go on to all differant MOS AITs after basic. This is interesting to me because I thought during this time basic trainees did not wear either shoulder sleeve insignia or branch collar discs. I though an MOS and therefore branch wasn't awarded until the completion of basic. Also, in all of the Army basic training yearbooks I have seen from the 60's, with the exception of Fort Knox, cadre of basic training and AIT units wore the SSI of the Army in whose geographic area they were located. For instance, First Army (Fort Dix, NJ), Third Army (Fort Bragg, NC, Fort Jackson, SC, Fort Benning, GA, Fort Gordon, GA, Fort McClellan, AL) Fourth Army (Fort Polk. LA) and Sixth Army (Fort Ord, CA and Fort Lewis, WA)(I'm sure there are others I have omitted but you get the point.) The Armor Center was the exception as far as cadre were concerned, but I still don't recall seeing basic trainees wearing the SSI before. I think most post-AIT schooling was different and in the cases where assignment was a permanent change of station, the soldier would wear the SSI of the particular school. I have seen Armor OCS candidates wearing the Armor Center SSi with "The Armor School" tab and Infantry OCS candidates wearing the Infantry School SSI. On the other hand, something like jump school at Fort Benning would only be considered temporary duty and the students would arrive with and wear the SSI of whatever unit they were either assigned to or, if known, destined for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patches Posted December 22, 2013 Share #1111 Posted December 22, 2013 A first first sighting for 77th Division on this thread: Major General Robert Alexander, C.G., 77th Division from August 27, 1918, until the division was demobilized at Camp Upton, N.Y., ca. May 9, 1919. Maj Gen ROBERT ALEXANDER, C G 77th Div.jpg That is a Beautiful Statue of Liberty patch, a real detailed quality bullion, just look at it's relief! Maybe only one of it's kind since it's worn by the Division CO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patches Posted December 22, 2013 Share #1112 Posted December 22, 2013 @Seanmc. I hear you, like you I have a ton of 60s Basic yearbooks ( No AIT ones, want them bad, can't seem to see in any in the past to get ), 1st, 3rd, 4th 5th and 6th Armies are worn, It must have been something only seen at Knox and Bliss, at Bliss Basic Training Drill Sergeants and Cadre wore that Air Defense Center and School Shoulder Patch in the 60s, though in that case Trainees are not wearing the ADC patch like their counterparts are wear the Armor Triangle at Knox. I have one Ft Knox yearbook September 1960, A Company, 9th Battalion, 3rd Trainging Regiment, no 5th Army to be seen, ( I think Knox fell under 5th Army jurisdiction ) only the non numbered Armor patch is seen, and seen big time on most of the Trainees, the majority of them, even on Field Jackets and Fatiques and liners, the majority of them have Armor triangle Decals on their liners too. Strangely Tabs are hardly seen at all, only seen on two of the Cadre of the actual Training Cycle Class, in their informal portraits in the section that has the indivdual Service portraits of the Graduating Class, to wit, the Company CO, ( a 2nd Lieutenant if you can believe, the exec is a 2nd Looey too ) has a USTC ARMOR tab, and the Company Clerk a PFC has one, the others where the Triangle patch IS visable do not, to include the the 3rd Regiment CO and the 9th Battalion CO, both, NO tabs are worn just theTriangle. The Tabs are not seen either under the shoulder patches of the Cadre in all the other photos in the book to include stock photos of Basic Training activities or one's taken with the actual Training Cycle Class, to include the decals of the Armor Triangle patches on their liners. Also no Tabs with the shoulder patches of the Post/School & Center CG Ralph J. Butchers ( he would be the Provost Marshal General come December 1960 ) and two of his Staff in their formal potraits in Khaki Uniforms in the begining of the book. So my only conclusion is that since this is a late-ish 1960 yearbook, is that the Tabs whether the USATC ARMOR, ARMOR SCHOOL, and THE ARMOR CENTER were worn scattershot in the late 50s early 60s and as the 60s wore on became more standard, more Armor Center and School Department specific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wailuna Posted December 22, 2013 Share #1113 Posted December 22, 2013 The Armor School Honor Guard Commanding Officer ca. May 1962 (w/tabbed patch): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patches Posted December 23, 2013 Share #1114 Posted December 23, 2013 The Armor School Honor Guard Commanding Officer ca. May 1962 (w/tabbed patch): The Armor School Honor Guard Commander ca. May 1962.jpg STRAC and SNAZZY, thank's for adding it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wailuna Posted December 23, 2013 Share #1115 Posted December 23, 2013 Another Tank Destroyer SSI: Brig. Gen. Joseph E. Bastion, Sr., pins the Distinguished Service Cross on Capt. Charles L. Thomas, which was awarded to him for extraordinary heroism in action on Dec. 14, 1944, near Climbach, France, while he was a 1st Lt. in command of C Co., 614th Tank Destroyer Battalion. (Note: The late Major Thomas's DSC was upgraded to the Medal of Honor in 1996.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanmc1114 Posted December 23, 2013 Share #1116 Posted December 23, 2013 Defense Atomic Support Agency SSI worn by Army Master Sgt. Pedro “Pete” Dagucon during his retirement ceremony in 1965. MSG Dagucon, a Philippine Scout during World War II, survived the Bataan Death March, a POW camp and later served in the the Korean War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanmc1114 Posted December 23, 2013 Share #1117 Posted December 23, 2013 Combat Developments Command Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patches Posted December 23, 2013 Share #1118 Posted December 23, 2013 @ Wailuna. Great Photo, where and when was this ceromony? More on Thompson's actions. http://don.genemcguire.com/Task_Force_Blackshear.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wailuna Posted December 24, 2013 Share #1119 Posted December 24, 2013 ...where and when was this ceromony? According to period newspaper stories based on an Associated Press wire service release, the War Department announced award of the DSC to Capt. Thomas ca. March 19, 1945. At the time, Capt. Thomas, whose hometown was Detroit, was a patient recovering from wounds at Percy Jones Army Hospital, Battle Creek, Mich. General Bastion was the commanding officer of the hospital. None of the articles surveyed mentioned the actual presentation of the award but a quickly arranged ceremony at the hospital sometime in the last two weeks of March, 1945, would be a reasonable WAG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanmc1114 Posted December 24, 2013 Share #1120 Posted December 24, 2013 Anti-Aircraft Command SSI worn with an Airborne tab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanmc1114 Posted December 24, 2013 Share #1121 Posted December 24, 2013 Artillery & Missile School SSI worn by a Field Artillery OCS candidate at Fort Sill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanmc1114 Posted December 24, 2013 Share #1122 Posted December 24, 2013 Infantry School OCS candidates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanmc1114 Posted December 24, 2013 Share #1123 Posted December 24, 2013 OCS candidate wearing the OCS patch on his short sleeve khaki shirt along with the short lived khaki shorts. Not a very flattering uniform in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wailuna Posted December 25, 2013 Share #1124 Posted December 25, 2013 ...short sleeve khaki shirt along with the short lived khaki shorts. Not a very flattering uniform in my opinion... You are correct. Those Okla. Arty. Tech. cuties never would have made the grade at Benning School for Boys…here is the real deal: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wailuna Posted December 25, 2013 Share #1125 Posted December 25, 2013 A 2-fer: Lt. Gen. John R. Hodge, C.G. XXIV Corps in Korea inspecting troops of 6th Infantry Division, ca. 1946. Just behind Gen. Hodge is 6th I.D.’s C.G., the unfortunate Maj. Gen. Orlando Ward, with his 6th I.D. patch barely visible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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