Jump to content

Patches in action: Photos of SSI being worn by the troops.


Teamski
 Share

Recommended Posts

9 hours ago, BEAR said:

The maroon beret was authorized for wear in January 1973. I had just graduated BAC and was so excited to wear my new beret. However when I arrived at my duty station in Alaska, the commander did not authorize the beret so we wore the garrison cap with glider patch. Before 73 any personnel assigned to SF but not Q qualified, they wore the glider patch. After 73, they wore the maroon beret.

Also for the SF, if soldiers had not been assigned to a SF Group they wore a short piece of patch under their crest on their berets which meant they were qualified but unassigned. These troops were referred to as "Candy Stripers".

candy stripper.jpg

Your source for the SF info is dead wrong.   The soldier pictured above was assigned to 6th Group at Ft Bragg, was not SF qualified.  The pic appears to be prior to fall of 1966.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

steeve555
11 hours ago, patches said:

 

 

Came across this shirt last night where the Texas National Guard 71st Airborne Brigade (Sep) patch with Tab is worn, since it is in full color along with Rank and BOS dates it befor the Summer of 1970, (Brigade formed  15 January 1968) Curious thing as you see, is there is no Jump Badge, the Tapes are the 67-68 Stamped type Subdued, and in the one close up where the U.S. ARMY Tape is seen, we do not see any ghosting of the cloth Jump Badge, unlikely it was a metal badge. So if a legit 71st Abn Bde shirt, they had some non jumpers in it???? Maybe is the 68-69-70 period when the brigade was actived???

army-vietnam-era-sateen-combat-shirt_1_43e42889092c40c92aabd6c97cdc67a7 (1).jpg

army-vietnam-era-sateen-combat-shirt_1_43e42889092c40c92aabd6c97cdc67a7.jpg

The soldier was not airborne qualified.  It was common especially in the Guard and Reserve to have NAPs in an airborne unit.  The airborne tab is part of the patch not a signifier of qualification.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

steeve555
9 hours ago, BEAR said:

The maroon beret was authorized for wear in January 1973. I had just graduated BAC and was so excited to wear my new beret. However when I arrived at my duty station in Alaska, the commander did not authorize the beret so we wore the garrison cap with glider patch. Before 73 any personnel assigned to SF but not Q qualified, they wore the glider patch. After 73, they wore the maroon beret.

Also for the SF, if soldiers had not been assigned to a SF Group they wore a short piece of patch under their crest on their berets which meant they were qualified but unassigned. These troops were referred to as "Candy Stripers".

candy stripper.jpg

The SF portion of comment is not correct.  Here is a quote that is accurate.  It is from another topic.  It is not my comment.  I'm using it because it is accurate and reflects what I saw in the SF community when I went through it. (1979 - 2007).  There was more to candy stripe 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

steeve555

forgot to copy over sorry

I served in the 5/19th SFG (CO ARNG) from 1983 to 1984, working in the PAC (administration) section of the Bn HQ. At that time non-airborne qualified soldiers (which was me) wore the standard BDU cap. Airborne but non-SF qualified soldiers wore the green beret with the "candy stripe" underneath the crest (the crest was worn directly on the beret) and SF qualified soldiers wore the green beret with the full flash and crest. In fact, getting SF qualified was oftern referred to as being "full flash" qualified. This was before the 18 series career management field (SF) was created.

 

In 1990, on active duty, I was assigned to the 3/1st SFG at Fort Lewis, WA as an intelligence analyst, not SF qualified. At that time the 18 CMF had been created and the Special Forces tab had also been created, designating those who were SF qualified. In 1990 all personnel assigned to the Group wore the green beret with the full flash and the only way to tell an SF qualified soldier from a non-SF was by the presence of the tab on the left shoulder. There were at least 4 female soldiers assigned to the Group HQ and they all wore the green beret. I still have my green beret with the 1st group (yellow and black) flash.

 

(Also, in those days, all the "issue" berets had liners in them and the first thing we'd do when getting a beret issued was to cut the liner out. Some people kept one "lined" beret in their foot or wall locker for inspections, because "technically" removing the liner was against regs. FWIW in the year I was with 1st group I never saw that reg enforced.)

 

In 1992 I was assigned to 3/3 SFG at Bragg. I was assigned to the MI Detachment which is part of the battalion Headquarters and Support Company. We all wore the green beret until 1 January 1993. On that date, non-SF qualified personnel were directed to stop wearing the green beret and to wear the maroon beret instead. (I remember the date well because the message came out in mid-December, and a guy in my section got yelled at by the First Sergeant for showing up in formation in a maroon beret in December.)

 

In 1999, I had left active duty and joined the CO National Guard and went back to the 5/19th SFG, this time to the MI Detachment. Again, we wore the maroon beret with the 19th group flash and crest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, steeve555 said:

The soldier was not airborne qualified.  It was common especially in the Guard and Reserve to have NAPs in an airborne unit.  The airborne tab is part of the patch not a signifier of qualification.

Yes indeed, the Tab is a unit insignia, just like all those Support Units at Bragg, ones that used to be under XVIII Airborne Corps, but from the 70s on are in those Brigades, they wear the AIRBORNE Tab, but they really are not Airborne, that would be a designation or them being Airborne. In example the 35th Signal Brigade, which is now at Fort Gordon, when they were at Fort Bragg they wore the AIRBORNE Tab, I don't know if they wear the Tab since the move to Fort Gordon.

 

Here's an early 2000s worn Field Jacket from the unit, no Jump Badge. 

35 a.PNG

35.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

steeve555
3 minutes ago, patches said:

Yes indeed, the Tab is a unit insignia, just like all those Support Units at Bragg, ones that used to be under XVIII Airborne Corps, but from the 70s on are in those Brigades, they wear the AIRBORNE Tab, but they really are not Airborne, that would be a designation or them being Airborne. In example the 35th Signal Brigade, which is now at Fort Gordon, when they were at Fort Bragg they wore the AIRBORNE Tab, I don't know if they wear the Tab since the move to Fort Gordon.

 

Here's an early 2000s worn Field Jacket from the unit, no Jump Badge. 

35 a.PNG

35.jpg

We didn't always wear jump wings on field jackets.  We almost never wore field jackets when gortex came out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

easterneagle87

And .. Although this soldier was assigned to that unit, it didn't mean they were "airborne" qualified.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/3/2017 at 4:27 PM, seanmc1114 said:

Army Ground Forces SSI worn with an AIRBORNE tab by a Special Forces officer who also appears to be wearing the beret flash of the J.F.K. Special Warfare Center. If so, the flash must have been approved, or at least worn unofficially, before the SSI for the Special Warfare Center was approved. This picture came from a 1963 Army film. TIOH says the Special Warfare Center SSI was approved on 22 October 1962 but also says the flash was not approved until 30 July 1991.

post-1761-0-52654300-1493843175_thumb.jpg

post-1761-0-86030500-1493843191.jpeg

post-1761-0-22085800-1493843204.jpeg

The Oval was approved in January 1965, and the Flash shortly after.   The July ‘91 date must be when the TIOH changed the flash specifications to Merrowed edged.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Exact approval dates for current insignia of SWCS

SSI - 22 October 1962  

Oval -  7 January 1965

Flash - 2 June 1965

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, steeve555 said:

forgot to copy over sorry

I served in the 5/19th SFG (CO ARNG) from 1983 to 1984, working in the PAC (administration) section of the Bn HQ. At that time non-airborne qualified soldiers (which was me) wore the standard BDU cap. Airborne but non-SF qualified soldiers wore the green beret with the "candy stripe" underneath the crest (the crest was worn directly on the beret) and SF qualified soldiers wore the green beret with the full flash and crest. In fact, getting SF qualified was oftern referred to as being "full flash" qualified. This was before the 18 series career management field (SF) was created.

 

In 1990, on active duty, I was assigned to the 3/1st SFG at Fort Lewis, WA as an intelligence analyst, not SF qualified. At that time the 18 CMF had been created and the Special Forces tab had also been created, designating those who were SF qualified. In 1990 all personnel assigned to the Group wore the green beret with the full flash and the only way to tell an SF qualified soldier from a non-SF was by the presence of the tab on the left shoulder. There were at least 4 female soldiers assigned to the Group HQ and they all wore the green beret. I still have my green beret with the 1st group (yellow and black) flash.

 

(Also, in those days, all the "issue" berets had liners in them and the first thing we'd do when getting a beret issued was to cut the liner out. Some people kept one "lined" beret in their foot or wall locker for inspections, because "technically" removing the liner was against regs. FWIW in the year I was with 1st group I never saw that reg enforced.)

 

In 1992 I was assigned to 3/3 SFG at Bragg. I was assigned to the MI Detachment which is part of the battalion Headquarters and Support Company. We all wore the green beret until 1 January 1993. On that date, non-SF qualified personnel were directed to stop wearing the green beret and to wear the maroon beret instead. (I remember the date well because the message came out in mid-December, and a guy in my section got yelled at by the First Sergeant for showing up in formation in a maroon beret in December.)

 

In 1999, I had left active duty and joined the CO National Guard and went back to the 5/19th SFG, this time to the MI Detachment. Again, we wore the maroon beret with the 19th group flash and crest.

My information came from two SF friends who went through the "Q" course in 1968. Obviously, by your information, they either didn't know or they lied to me (knowing SF I lean towards the lying) . Your explanation makes more sense since the "candy striper" in the picture is only a private. Thanks.

 

BEAR

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Color Cav patches in today, plus a Full Color RANGER Tab, the 2nd Battalion 12th Cavalry is the unit. Note the one with the Blue Hat Cords on his Stetson, probably the CSM of this unit, but appears to have Crossed Sabers, the other no doubt Officers and wear Gold Cords and interestingly the wear of the 12th Cavalry unit crest on the rear of the hats. Another note, the man there didn't wear his 101 Combat patch in Color, we assume the Cav patch he's wearing is in color.

color cav today one with blue hat cord.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

steeve555
14 hours ago, BEAR said:

My information came from two SF friends who went through the "Q" course in 1968. Obviously, by your information, they either didn't know or they lied to me (knowing SF I lean towards the lying) . Your explanation makes more sense since the "candy striper" in the picture is only a private. Thanks.

 

BEAR

A lot of changes took place in the 70's to mid 80's.  There could of been differences in 68 than 78 about the candy stripe.  We could wear it if we competed Phase 1.  Then when we finished Phase 3 we were awarded full flash.  At the time I was in the 11TH SFG.  To be quite frank I never saw a candy stripe at Bragg any of times I was there.  I only saw them back at the unit.  In my case Tappen NY.  Around there the NQP'S wore soft caps.  When I got out of SF in 2007 the NQP's were still wearing soft caps unless they were in class A's  Then they wore Maroon Berets.  The Support Guys wear Maroon all the time in garrison.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will agree to lots of changes and confusion. When the maroon beret was authorized in January 1973, the commander in Alaska did not allow it because the the 3 airborne companies were in separate battalions and they were not airborne. Alaska did not get their berets until 1975 under General Schwarzkopf. Of course the rest of the brigade got OD berets also.
I was a Black Hat at Benning when the order to eliminate the maroon berets came in October of 1979. We lost our black hats and black windbreakers. For a almost a year we had to wear the green baseball cap.

 

79 Jump Comm..jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

steeve555
11 minutes ago, BEAR said:

I will agree to lots of changes and confusion. When the maroon beret was authorized in January 1973, the commander in Alaska did not allow it because the the 3 airborne companies were in separate battalions and they were not airborne. Alaska did not get their berets until 1975 under General Schwarzkopf. Of course the rest of the brigade got OD berets also.
I was a Black Hat at Benning when the order to eliminate the maroon berets came in October of 1979. We lost our black hats and black windbreakers. For a almost a year we had to wear the green baseball cap.

 

79 Jump Comm..jpg

Yep I know, I was there at Ft Rich

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, steeve555 said:

A lot of changes took place in the 70's to mid 80's.  There could of been differences in 68 than 78 about the candy stripe.  We could wear it if we competed Phase 1.  Then when we finished Phase 3 we were awarded full flash.  At the time I was in the 11TH SFG.  To be quite frank I never saw a candy stripe at Bragg any of times I was there.  I only saw them back at the unit.  In my case Tappen NY.  Around there the NQP'S wore soft caps.  When I got out of SF in 2007 the NQP's were still wearing soft caps unless they were in class A's  Then they wore Maroon Berets.  The Support Guys wear Maroon all the time in garrison.

Would I be correct in assuming that you were in the 11th Grp while going through SFTG, and wore the 11th’s Stripe after Phase 1?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

steeve555

Yes but not at FT Bragg.  There we wore soft cap in training group.  Wore the candy stripe back at the Company.  In my case it was Tappan Ny.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A Recruiting Sergeant in 1973, we see the separate RECRUITING Tab and Recruiting Command patch, both Merrowed Edge (Note too the wear of the Branch Unassigned Collar Disc Recruiters wore then)

jp u1.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, patches said:

A Recruiting Sergeant in 1973, we see the separate RECRUITING Tab and Recruiting Command patch, both Merrowed Edge (Note too the wear of the Branch Unassigned Collar Disc Recruiters wore then)

jp u1.jpg

A Close Up of Tab and Patch and collar Disc.

tjp_u1.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A fantastic color portrait of one Sydney Anderson of the 128th Infantry 32nd Infantry Division, Anderson evedenly an original Wisconisin National Guardsman, and was a real survivor. going from Papua to Luzon,

Anderson-Sydney.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

seanmc1114
10 hours ago, patches said:

A fantastic color portrait of one Sydney Anderson of the 128th Infantry 32nd Infantry Division, Anderson evedenly an original Wisconisin National Guardsman, and was a real survivor. going from Papua to Luzon,

Anderson-Sydney.jpg

Taken at least a couple of years after the end of the war, since the campaign medals were not issued until 1947.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, seanmc1114 said:

Taken at least a couple of years after the end of the war, since the campaign medals were not issued until 1947.

That's a good observation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Replacement and School Command patch on one Technical Sergeant Louis Eugene McConnell, he was Company F 126TH Infantry 32nd Infantry Division and was badly wounded in the Battle of Buna, evacuated out, recovered evidently and received a new stateside assignment, that at one of the training centers, Infantry. the Replacement and School Command patch has a 22 March 1943 adoption date, and that McConnell isn't wearing a CIB over his ribbons, which are probably a Purple Heart, American Defense, and an Asiatic Campaign one, will date portrait in the spring say of 1943 to late 1943 before the CIB was introduced and Wounded and Recovered  Vets serving in the ZI like McConnell start to either be issued with them or purchase them.

mkio.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, patches said:

The Replacement and School Command patch on one Louis Eugene McConnell, he was Company F 126TH Infantry 32nd Infantry Division and was badly wounded in the Battle of Buna, evacuated out, recovered evidently and received a new stateside assignment, that at one of the training centers, Infantry. the Replacement and School Command patch has a 22 March 1943 adoption date, and that McConnell isn't wearing a CIB over his ribbons, which are probably a Purple Heart, American Defense, and an Asiatic Campaign one, will date in the spring say of 1943 to late 1943 before the CIB was introduced and Vets like McConnell start to either be issued with them or purchase them.

mkio.jpg

And the DIs he's wearing, that for the Infantry Replacement Training Centers

ts-l500.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice Color photo of Major General Herbert A. Smith Divisional Commander 32nd Infantry Division 28 June 1960 to 1 July 1963. When you ZOOM in you'll see he's wearing an OD Border Red Arrow patch. Smith was in the Red Arrow Division a long time when he commanded the division in the early 60s, came into the Wisconsin National Guard as an EM in 1919, gained a Commission in 1923, was a battalion commander in the war, 2nd Battalion 128th Infantry. His only assignment outside the 32nd Inf Div apparently was a stint of active duty post WWII as Chief of Small Arms Committee of the Infantry. School, Ft. Benning Georgia 1945-1947, then it's back to the reactivated 32nd Inf Div back home.

Smith-Herbert-A (1).jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...