Post Your 27th Infantry / 165th Inf Rgmt Oficer Uniforms - PLEASE

[Huntzman]

OK, I've searched the site and still haven't found what I need. I'm desperate here. I checked through the forum but could only come up with enlisted jackets.

 

I am trying to recreate my late uncles WWII Uniform when he left active duty in 1945. At the time he was a Lt. Colonel. He served with the 27th ID / 165th IR during WWII.

 

I'm new to US Military items and basically I am hoping someone might have an officers tunic that I could "cheat" off of. I want to make sure that I recreate it based on what was actually worn and not what I think.

 

So if you have any officers jackets, please post them.

 

Thanks,

Andrew

[dogfacedsoldier]

Andrew,

 

Do you have a copy of the 1941 National Guard pictorial of the men in each unit of the 27th? I can't remember where it was taken, but it was before they were sent to Hawaii. It's a good primary source of members of the 27th. A lot of whom would serve in Combat with the unit. I had no relatives in the 27th, all of mine with the exception of a couple of cousins served in Europe. I would have to look, I have a 27th enlisted uniform somewhere in the house, and it has no ID to my knowledge, but I'll look for it. I know it's not much help, but there are some reference books out there that might have some pics of officer's uniforms from other older units that were NG who served in the Pacific. These would be 32nd, 33rd, 37th, 31st, 41st and 43rd. The only other unit would be the 77th. Other than the DI's, and patch the uniform set up would be similar to the 27th. Hey where you from in Central Ill? I was born in Clinton, lived in Kenney and Beason, before moving to MO. My Mom lives in Springfield. I had an aunt married to a 33rd Division rifle Co. Commander from Decatur during WWII. I have a lot of resources here at home, so I'll see what I can do. If you can a copy of his separation papers, he may or may not have filed his at the County CH after the war, or when he retired. My dad filed his when he retired in the mid 50's. He was career Navy, in the old prewar Navy. His first hitch was up in early 1942. The National Records Center is getting ready to move soon, in June, and they may or may not have his records, lots of records burned up. I also heard they will be charging now for records. Lots of things count on where he was from on records. Some states are not cooperative at all. Illinois is not bad really.

 

Jon

[Cobrahistorian]

I'm on AT for the next couple weeks, but when I get back to the museum, I'll see if I can scan some images from the prewar volume that Jon mentioned above (there are a LOT of us on here who spell our name that way!). We've got a few volumes on the 27th, including the official division history for WWII.

 

Jon

[Jack's Son]

Andrew,

Have you looked through the "Sold" forum ?

There may be tunics there you can use as reference.

If you have the time, it's one more place of opportunity.

 

JS

[Huntzman]

Jon & Jon

 

That was easy :thumbsup:

 

Thanks for the replies.

 

Jon (DFS) - Yes and no, I do have a pdf copy of the 1941 book, but every time I try and load it, it slows my sys to a crawl. 400 + pages, I wonder why.

 

In the interim I did manage to locate a pic of a 27th Major uniform, different IR but close to what I need. I think the DUI's would be the hardest to find anyway. But I will build it from the consensus I have been able to put together.

 

I did manage to get his papers from NPRC, hoping to get something back by way of DMNA. He was with the 165th in New York. I'm only an expatriate Illini. I'm originally from New York City. I'm just south of Springfield. I know were Clinton is, been through there many times. I'm also doing double research trying to piece together my father in laws career. He is from Illinois, but unfortunately his records were lost in the fire.

 

Jon (CH) - Thanks for the offer. Any help would be greatly appreciated. For the record my Uncle's name was Martin H. Foery. He retired in 1973 as a Major General. When he was with the 165th he rose up from Pvt to Colonel and was the Regimental Commander. He left and took over the XO spot of the 42nd and then became the CO of the Division.

 

My goal is to put together his WWII uniform and his MG Uniform for a display, along with my Father in Laws Sgt uniform.

 

Thanks again for all the help.

Andrew

[Huntzman]

Andrew,

Have you looked through the "Sold" forum ?

There may be tunics there you can use as reference.

If you have the time, it's one more place of opportunity.

 

JS

 

JS, I did but only came up with one enlisted and not from the same IR.

 

Andrew

[BigJohn#3RD]

I would check eBay as well. I have found a couple of unit crest there in the past at a decent price. Good Luck

Regards,

John

[Huntzman]

Big John

 

Yeah, I have been looking for awhile. They pop up ever so rarely, as you would expect. I keep hoping.

 

I missed out on the last one I saw a couple months back due to a horrible internet connection out here in God's forgotten country

 

Andrew

[Huntzman]

Thanks to a suggestion by one of the forum members I ran an ebay search under 69th IR and what do you know, got a HM DUI for $4.50 !!!

 

One down, one to go !!!

[marineamtracer]

Andrew sent you a pm about how I may be able to help out.

Colin

[FightenIrish35]

I have the book in my hands as we speak....I just need a name to search for in the group photos!! :thumbsup:

[Huntzman]

I have the book in my hands as we speak....I just need a name to search for in the group photos!! :thumbsup:

 

PM Sent

[Cobrahistorian]

Andrew,

 

Since he was a GO, I can say that we almost certainly have info on him in the library. I'll be back in the office on the 21st and will locate his GO biography as soon as I can.

 

Jon

[Huntzman]

Jon

 

Thanks for any & all help in this matter. I really appreciate it.

 

Andrew

 

Andrew,

 

Since he was a GO, I can say that we almost certainly have info on him in the library. I'll be back in the office on the 21st and will locate his GO biography as soon as I can.

 

Jon

[gsmilligan]

Just returned from a Military school this weekend and getting caught up on things. I'm sure one of the other fellows sent you this, but here is your uncle as the XO of Company D, 165th Infantry from the 1941 yearbook.

 

Interestingly, his crossed rifles seem to be different than the other officers of D Co- you can almost make out the 165 on top, but what's underneath? What else would it be, but 69NY. A quick scan through the yearbook shows mostly senior officers wearing this decidedly unauthorized insignia...

 

So if you are building his uniform, make sure it has these very special crossed rifles. And you thought the DUI's would be hard to find!

 

 

 

Since the 69th was in the 27th during WWII (as it is today as part of the 27th Infantry Brigade), I may have follow-on documents from the Division Association Archives- however, I'd suggest contacting the 69th Association historian (start here: [email protected]). I'm sure if he was the commander of the unit at some point they have lots of info and maybe even pics.

[gsmilligan]

And since I seem to be caught up and so have a few free minutes, here are some differences between an older screwback (prob 165th) and a newer (69th circa 2010) DUI.

 

[Ealbert]

I also found your uncle's photo in the 42nd Infantry Division from 1948. He's listed as the Regimental Executive Officer for the 165th Infantry Regiment. It looks like a Silver Star on the top row.

[Linedoggie]

Just a thought, have you tried contacting the 69th Veterans Corps? the Regiment still has many contacts from the War years as members. One of the Officers lives in Hawaii since the war. Good bunch of Joes. they might be able to put your request into the next newsletter

 

Here is their contact info:

 

Veterans Corps, 69th Regiment inc.

PO Box 98 Madison Square Station

New York, New York 10010

(212) - 686 - 6556

E-Mail [email protected]

 

Here's a semi useful site:

http://www.sixtyninth.net/

[Huntzman]

First, let me start off by saying thank you to everyone who has taken the time to help me out with my research.

 

The photos were great and I really appreciate it. I especially liked the one from when he was a Lt. Colonel. Had not seen that one before. Yes, that is the Silver Star. He was awarded it on Saipan, along with the Bronze Star.

 

I'd love to find the 165th (69th) Infantry collar insignia, but I'm not gonna hold my breath *Laugh*

 

I've been working with some of the unit historians and I am doing pretty well. I also ran a request through my Congressman's office and had great results, to the point I am even getting a replacement set of his medals.

 

Now I just have to get some documentation on his NYANG era medals. I'm almost 100% positive he was awarded the Legion of Merit along with the Distinguished Service Medal.

 

Second, I apologize for the delay in responding, we had some storms run through here a few weeks back and our modem got fried along with damage to the phone line. Finally we are back up and running.

 

Andrew

[Huntzman]

I figured I would post this here first to keep everything on this topic sort of contained.

 

I just got a scan of a still photo back from NARA. My uncle along with a Lt General reviewing the troops. It is the first time I have seen a photo of my uncles circa late 60's uniform from the right side perspective.

 

On the lower right sleeve are hash marks which I take to indicate his over seas service period. Is this correct ?

 

The interesting thing is that on the left side he is wearing what appears to be the 27th Inf. Division patch. The 42nd Inf. Div. is on the left sleeve. Would this be correct, indicating the prior combat command ?

 

Thanks,

Andrew

[Huntzman]

Here is a scan of the photo. I have adjusted the brightness to see better.

 

(Note: See Previous Post For Questions)

[gsmilligan]

On the lower right sleeve are hash marks which I take to indicate his over seas service period. Is this correct ?

 

The interesting thing is that on the left side he is wearing what appears to be the 27th Inf. Division patch. The 42nd Inf. Div. is on the left sleeve. Would this be correct, indicating the prior combat command ?

 

Thanks,

Andrew

 

100% Correct! The 69th/165th was part of the 27th during WWII, as it is again today. (Technically, the entire 27th is part of the 42nd today, but is a seperately patched brigade.)

[Huntzman]

GSM

 

Thank you for the confirmation. I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

 

Question, who would have copies of the G.O.'s of the 27th during WWII ? Trying to get copies of two pertaining to medals my uncle received (SSM / BSM-V) in 1944.

 

Thanks,

Andrew

[gsmilligan]

You know, I don't, believe it or not, but I bet someone here does.

 

I just found some stuff today, though:

 

From Vol. 1, No. 1 of The Gallavanter (August 1950), the 27th Division Association's newsletter:

 

Personal Notes

 

165th Infantry

 

3d Battalion Headquarters and Headquarters Company

 

Martin Foery is now regimental commander of the 165th Infantry. His official address is 68 Lexington Ave.*, you know where. We shall never forget the day that Mike Sheibner and Joe Hart painted the old address on a hut in Saipan. With Martin in control, we think his regiment is in good hands. If any of you want to give him some good advice, his home address is (omitted -GSM), L.I., N.Y. This is in the train wreck zone of the Long Island railroad so you better hurry your letters. You can never tell about the guys who live out there.

 

 

*69th's Armory in NYC -GSM

[Huntzman]

GSM

 

Thanks for sharing that entry. If you know anyone who has access to a photocopier / scanner that might be able to copy the image for me please send me an IM. I'd love to have a copy of it to add to my growing collection of documents.

 

Yeah, he had a long career with the 69th / 165th. He started off as an enlisted grunt in 31 and rose straight up to regimental commander before moving over to the 42nd. A very serious family medical condition kept him stateside for Korea which took some steam off the old career track. Had he gone I firmly believe he would have easily made Lt. General, if not General.

 

Andrew