Background trimmings (ovals) question

[Sabrejet]

Are jumpwing ovals routinely sewn onto the jacket / shirt (WW2 > present) or are they simply held in place by virtue of the jumpwings being pinned through them? Thanks.

 

Sabrejet

[pfrost]

Are jumpwing ovals routinely sewn onto the jacket / shirt (WW2 > present) or are they simply held in place by virtue of the jumpwings being pinned through them? Thanks.

 

Sabrejet

 

I am no expert, but I have seen them done both ways on what I think are good vintage, and non-messed with uniforms.

 

Patrick

[Sabrejet]

I am no expert, but I have seen them done both ways on what I think are good vintage, and non-messed with uniforms.

 

Patrick

 

 

Thanks Patrick. I thought that might be the case!

 

Ian

[Jumpin Jack]

I am no expert, but I have seen them done both ways on what I think are good vintage, and non-messed with uniforms.

 

Patrick

 

Partrick,

 

You are totally correct in your observations. Jack

[hawk3370]

Are jumpwing ovals routinely sewn onto the jacket / shirt (WW2 > present) or are they simply held in place by virtue of the jumpwings being pinned through them? Thanks.

 

Sabrejet

 

Ian,

Having spent 25 years in and around airborne units, I never saw the oval being sewn on to the shirt or tunic. We just used the jump wings to secure it to the uniform. The reason we didn't sew them on was because everytime you changed units you would have to remove the old and sew on the new so no one bothered to do that. I suspect that there may be some sewn on examples out there but in my personal experience I know of no one that actually sewed the oval on.

 

Terry

[VMI88]

For what it's worth, I recently picked up a service coat named to an airborne trooper. It came directly from the family, and the oval was not sewn.

 

Bill

[Sabrejet]

Ian,

Having spent 25 years in and around airborne units, I never saw the oval being sewn on to the shirt or tunic. We just used the jump wings to secure it to the uniform. The reason we didn't sew them on was because everytime you changed units you would have to remove the old and sew on the new so no one bothered to do that. I suspect that there may be some sewn on examples out there but in my personal experience I know of no one that actually sewed the oval on.

 

Terry

 

 

Hi Terry. Good to hear from you again! So, there we have it from the proverbial horse's mouth...so to speak! Thanks.

 

Ian :thumbsup:

[Sabrejet]

For what it's worth, I recently picked up a service coat named to an airborne trooper. It came directly from the family, and the oval was not sewn.

 

Bill

 

 

Roger that...and thank you Bill!

 

Ian :thumbsup:

[Arnie101]

And one question for chicken man in Nam, did use 101st background trimmings after transformation to airmobile (after 1968)?

Im asking after study manual AR 670-1 from 70ties, when it wasnt allowed for airmobile unit as its now.

Thank you

[Robswashashore]

And one question for chicken man in Nam, did use 101st background trimmings after transformation to airmobile (after 1968)?

Im asking after study manual AR 670-1 from 70ties, when it wasnt allowed for airmobile unit as its now.

Thank you

 

 

I believe it was allowed. Basing my guess on the fact that I was given a beautiful pair of Air Assault wings from a member of this forum with the background oval of the 187th/101st. He earned his wings in mid 80's I believe. (You know who you are out there!) But come to think of it, I'm not sure when they started to allow it.

[Arnie101]

Thank for info

[Rakkasan187]

Arnie,

 

To answer your question about the ovals being authorized after the 101st went Airmobile and then Air Assault, the answer is yes. Upon graduation from the Air Assault School, you were permitted to wear the oval designated for your unit, for example, I earned my Air Assault wings in 1985, and was with the 3rd Battalion 187th Infantry Regiment, formerly the 187th Airborne Regimental Combat Team. As mentioned in a previous posting, the ovals were not sewed to the dress green uniform, due to Soldier’s changing units, and thus having to change ovals. I will have to check for you and get you an exact date of when the ovals were approved for wear again within the 101st, but I believe it was in the 70's... Here is a link to the 187th Uniforms. In post # 28 you will notice that my Air Assault Wings are pinned to my unit oval and in the next picture the unit crest is pinned to the beret flash, although not authorized by the time I arrived at the unit, I was still given a beret flash. Hope this answers your question about the oval for the 101st…

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...forms&st=20

 

Leigh...

[hawk3370]

And one question for chicken man in Nam, did use 101st background trimmings after transformation to airmobile (after 1968)?

Im asking after study manual AR 670-1 from 70ties, when it wasnt allowed for airmobile unit as its now.

Thank you

 

Arnie101,

Not related to ovals, however I noticed that you mention "Chicken Man" in VN. I suspect most of the members of the forum don't know who or what "Chicken Man" was being a bit before their time. Every day at a certain time all the radios in the aircraft became silent, no chatter from ground units or other aircraft because Armed Forces Radio Vietnam was playing the "Adventures of Chicken Man". So for a few seconds the war came to a stop while we listened intently as Chicken Man saved another young lady or solved the worlds problems. Oh the memories. Thanks for bringing up a long lost friend to every soldier that served in RVN.

Terry

[J_Andrews]

The Chickenman episodes you heard in RVN were recycled from Chicago radio station WCFL, not purpose-produced for military use. WCFL started them as a lark, for a one or two week period, intending to spoof the then-current TV show Batman. They became very popular and lasted until: 1. "Miss Hilfinger" the Girl Friday who was in reality the office receptionist was told she had to join the actors' union; 2. The creator, Chickenman, demanded more money and complete relief from his reality duties as a sports announcer.

 

BTW the 1st Cav's 227th Aviation Bn was nicknamed "Chickenman", after the radio bits.

[tredhed2]

The Chickenman episodes you heard in RVN were recycled from Chicago radio station WCFL, not purpose-produced for military use. WCFL started them as a lark, for a one or two week period, intending to spoof the then-current TV show Batman. They became very popular and lasted until: 1. "Miss Hilfinger" the Girl Friday who was in reality the office receptionist was told she had to join the actors' union; 2. The creator, Chickenman, demanded more money and complete relief from his reality duties as a sports announcer.

 

BTW the 1st Cav's 227th Aviation Bn was nicknamed "Chickenman", after the radio bits.

 

Well thanks for the memories.......I have to cop out I felt really stupid listening it the episodes, but it gave me something to do not related to aco-hall.

[pfrost]

Well thanks for the memories.......I have to cop out I felt really stupid listening it the episodes, but it gave me something to do not related to aco-hall.

 

 

When I was a kid in the late 70's when my dad was stationed in Rota Spain NAS, we used to listen to Chicken man on the AFRTS radio station. When ever one of us made a good play during our daily games of Nerf football, we would do a chicken dance and yell "He's everywhere! He's everywhere! bwak, bwak, bwak, BWAAAAK". What a blast from the past!

[Wailuna]

Yes! He is everywhere! Link here===>

[hawk3370]

Yes! He is everywhere! Link here===>

 

Its hard to kill a legend!!! Thanks.

Terry

[stickhauler]

I was in the 101st after serving with the 173rd in Vietnam, I started in the 101 with 1/503rd Infantry (Airborne). They had a number of new graduates of Benning who were more capable of actually guiding themselves to a given point with a parachute (I was all of 5'7", 125 pounds, the parachute usually landed me where it wanted to), and they moved lighter troops out of airborne units to airmobile units. I was assigned to the 1/506th Infantry (Airmobile). After getting our Airmobile badges, we used them with the ovals exactly as we had our Airborne wings. There just weren't many troops who actually were able to display both Airborne and Airmobile wings in the unit.

 

Personally, I preferred serving in a airborne unit, it seemed like we had better unit cohesion than what I saw in airmobile. Or maybe I was just cranky about losing my jump pay of $55.00 a month. That covered my car payment back then.

[Arnie101]

Hawk3370, good to know it, thanks. Ive only read about VC, who didnt know eagles and nicknamed 101st soldiers 'chicken man' because theirs patches.

Stickhauler, thanks for memories.

Rakkasan187, thanks for help.

[treetop]

In my uniform collection, I have a short sleeved Khaki shirt with the oval sewn in place as well as a long sleeved tan gaberdine "Khaki" shirt with the (187) oval sewn on. Also I believe that currently if a member of the 101st is both Airborne and Air Assault qualified he must wear the Air Assault wings on the oval because the unit is AA. In the 82nd, if a soldier is dual qualified, he must wear the jump wings with the oval. You rarely see ovals sewn on greens around here. In the 50's and early 60's soldiers wore the jump wings pinned through the oval on the front of the Ridgeway or "Pop-up" hat.

[Sabrejet]

In my uniform collection, I have a short sleeved Khaki shirt with the oval sewn in place as well as a long sleeved tan gaberdine "Khaki" shirt with the (187) oval sewn on. Also I believe that currently if a member of the 101st is both Airborne and Air Assault qualified he must wear the Air Assault wings on the oval because the unit is AA. In the 82nd, if a soldier is dual qualified, he must wear the jump wings with the oval. You rarely see ovals sewn on greens around here. In the 50's and early 60's soldiers wore the jump wings pinned through the oval on the front of the Ridgeway or "Pop-up" hat.

 

Thanks for your input...and for reviving this thread treetop!

 

Sabrejet :thumbsup:

[patches]

Thanks for your input...and for reviving this thread treetop!

 

Sabrejet :thumbsup:

 

An old thread I stumbled on to here. I thought I might resurrect it in answer to one question at least, this being the wear of ovals within the 101st Airborne Division in 1968 after it was redesignated as an Airmoble division and the answer is no, there were no longer ovals worn in the division after it was redesignated. In late 1967 the remainder of the 101 arrived in South Vietnam, it did not join with its 1st Brigade at first, the remaining division elements went straight to III corps while the 1st Brigade continued it's operation's in II Corps, the division HQ settled in Bien Hoa in III Corps, but it,s elements where scattered all over Vietnam's III, II and I corps, the Division had like the 1st Cav Division became a Fire Brigade. From the very outset of the Division arriving in Vietnam it became apparant that it, because of a critical shortage of jump qualified ENLISTEDMEN, could not maintain itself for long as a full status jump unit, also adding to this was that the 101 from the moment it entered combat was begining to incur serious losses in casualties of all types. As early as Febuary 1968 it was decided to assign non Airborne personel to the units while keeping the 1st brigade as a jump status unit, even here in the 1st Brigade it was begining to look that this too was impossible due to many original members starting to become short, so they had no choice, non airborne personel had to assigned to the 1st brigade as well. As the winter turned to spring the Infantry units of the Division was unofficialy redesignated as airmobile, very few original jump qualified men remained in the units espescialy the infantry, the spring of 1968 essentially put the nail in the coffin of the old 101 and as the spring turned to summer, it was in august officialy redesignated as the 101st Air Cavalry Division, this new title did not FLY as it were with the men of the Division and it was rather quickly officialy re-redesignated back to the 101st Airborne Division ( AIRMOBILE ) a much more palatable title.

 

During all this time to be sure you did see airborne qualified personel throughout the division, in particular, officers and second tour men, but since the division was no longer on jump status with it's units now redesignated Airmobile, ovals where not autherized to be worn, even if a man was jump qualified, the units where no longer autherized to wear ovals, the only units to have ovals was the new airborne ranger company that was formed in Febuary 1969, L company 75th Infantry (RANGER) they wore an unautherized oval which despite it's unofficial-ness was permited to be worn locally. When individual men after the autumn of 1968, winter of 1968/1969 and later in 1971/1972 when full units of the 101 began to leave Vietnam they could be seen only attired as regular soldiers in there Khakis, no jump boots and no Parachute/Glider patch on the Garrison Cap, if one would be seen wearing the airborne distictives he would no doubt be an old timer leaving as an individual and would be wearing them on his own initiative. 1972 seen the the two battalions of the 327th Infantry leave Vietnam, one these Battalions the 1st was extensivly photographed in Oakland in late January, one company, A company was given a parade thrown by the town of San Mateo, in some of the photos where the men are in their AG Class A uniforms you see the uniforms like any other infantrymen to include the DIs on the garrison cap. During the parade the unit wore full combat gear with weapons and jungle fatiques, steel helmets interrestingly with airborne liners, most likely newly issued at the Oakland Army Terminal as the covers look brand spanking new along with the chin straps/A yokes. The Battalion then left Caifornia and when to Fort Campbell, where I gather some of them where seperated from the service, its interresting to note that this was a unit relocation movement and not a one stop in Oakland inactivation job.

 

When the entire 101st was back at Fort Campbell it continued in it's airmobile role, the 3rd Brigade went back on jump status however using assets from the inactivated 173rd Airborne Division and several support units went back on jump status as well. In 1974 the whole division was redesignated as AIR ASSAULT and a new concept was initiated, that of the Air Assault school to train not only men being assigned to the 101 but also troops from a wide range of units and men with certain MOSs, the Air Assault badge was insituted at that time and was now autherized to be worn within the 101 on the traditional ovals that where autherized in the 60s when the Division was a full fleged jump unit, the Department of the Army also re-autherized the wear of bloused boots and parachute/glider badges on garrison caps for the 101st Airborne Division ( AIR ASSAULT ) at this time.

[Arnie101]

Nice job. Thank you for a lot of information and bringing ligth for this cause.

[J_Andrews]

sorry to report that at least some units of the 101st were wearing ovals with JUMP wings in 1970-71. This is when they were based at Hue and Phu Bai. I do not recall which Brigade was at Camp Eagle (3rd?), but jump-qualified Bns of the 506th and 187th wore a mixture of US-made and locally-made ovals. These could be seen on boonie hats and ball caps. There were not bunches of jumpers in the Div then and prob no more than 10% of the people went to the trouble of getting ovals. Not all jumpers had them by any means.

 

I also recall seeing 17th Cav, 326th Eng and Arty ovals, but not many. The cadre of SERTS (Screaming Eagle Replacement Trng School) wore black naugahyde/leatherette ovals. They wore these both on headgear AND on their chests, both places with BRIGHT (polished on a buffing wheel) wings. I guess they wore them on the chests because the oval did not stand out on the black hat.

 

The 506th ovals were BIG, apparently because the seamstresses could not work the three-piece red-white-blue middles plus white border in the normal size. The outer borders and inner border were blue. Also there were two versions of the 187th oval -- one the WWII GIR orange bordered blue and one the KW era 18th red-white-blue -- showing that somebody (maybe) knew the difference !