High Cost of Death - Fees for IDPF's

[Jack's Son]

Hi Guys,

 

Well it finally happened, to me at least.

The Army Human Resources Command has started to levy a fee for IDPF's.

I received a letter today informing of such, and giving me the option of paying,

or having my requests canceled.

 

This is a surprise, but not out of reality. I have approximately 30 requests still

outstanding, so it will run into BIG BUCKS.

 

The fee is estimated to be $20.00-$35.00 for each report. This includes 2 hours

of research time, and 100 pages of copies. They estimate each file to be 50 pages.

I've had only one file less then 50 pages.

 

OH WELL. :think:

[doyler]

Hi Guys,

 

Well it finally happened, to me at least.

The Army Human Resources Command has started to levy a fee for IDPF's.

I received a letter today informing of such, and giving me the option of paying,

or having my requests canceled.

 

This is a surprise, but not out of reality. I have approximately 30 requests still

outstanding, so it will run into BIG BUCKS.

 

The fee is estimated to be $20.00-$35.00 for each report. This includes 2 hours

of research time, and 100 pages of copies. They estimate each file to be 50 pages.

I've had only one file less then 50 pages.

 

OH WELL. :think:

 

 

Not to be a buzz kill but many things that use to be free are not so anymore.Here locally the influx of requests for material has forced the sources of information to charge as it ties up time and personel and materials.I assume this is the same for the AHRC ,NPRC etc.With the deluge of requests they are recieving for records from collectors Im not surprised they have gone to charging.

[Jack's Son]

Not to be a buzz kill but many things that use to be free are not so anymore.Here locally the influx of requests for material has forced the sources of information to charge as it ties up time and personel and materials.I assume this is the same for the AHRC ,NPRC etc.With the deluge of requests they are recieving for records from collectors Im not surprised they have gone to charging.

No, I'm not surprised either.

I'm only mildly chagrined that they didn't give some "lead time" to notice people of the new fee.

I have no problem paying it, I know as a collector, I am burdening the system.

The last thing I would want is to have them charge a fee for the NOK. That would be UNFAIR.

[Jim Baker]

Never been charged for an IDPF. This is too bad, but nothing is free. At least not in this country.

 

On a happy note, my last request for a GO was sent again in record time. I got it before I got the medal I purchased. No charge..... yet.

[JBFloyd]

I'll pay quickly, if they deliver quickly! make that "if they deliver".

[KASTAUFFER]

I have been charged many times over the years. This is not new.

 

They have a threshold they begin to charge fees, depending on how often/how many reports and pages copied you request over a period of time ( usually a year ) . if you have more then 1-2 reports in the hopper at 1 time, you will probably be charged.

 

Kurt

[scottplen]

Have been charged once ! that was the only time !!! all in all recieved many IDPFs over the yrs!! so guess if they don't get too crazy i will pay!!

:thumbdown:

[Jack's Son]

I have been charged many times over the years. This is not new.

 

They have a threshold they begin to charge fees, depending on how often/how many reports and pages copied you request over a period of time ( usually a year ) . if you have more then 1-2 reports in the hopper at 1 time, you will probably be charged.

 

Kurt

If that is the case, it is completely understandable.

The number of requests I have is outside of what would be considered "reasonable".

No problem with that at all. I only wanted to be informed BEFORE hand.

[Dave]

The last thing I would want is to have them charge a fee for the NOK. That would be UNFAIR.

 

Just to play devil's advocate...how many NOK are requesting IPDFs? It would be an interesting question to ask, but I'd bet a lot of money that it might be a handful per year, if that. It's been nearly 40 years since Vietnam and 60+ years since WW2. Most NOK, if they're really interested in the final paperwork on their loved one, have already "scratched that itch"...probably decades ago.

 

If the Human Resources Command is like any other unit I've ever seen, they're probably 2/3 to 1/2 manned, the civilians retiring without replacement, the active duty over in Iraq or Afghanistan. They probably aren't getting funded sufficiently to buy enough paper and toner to make all the photocopies and the cost of postage...ouch! Realistically, their priority level for answering requests from collectors? Quite possibly less than zero!

 

Just my thought on it...I have no problem with them charging a fee. I think that's only realistic. The Russians have done that for decades (they even charged veterans a fee for getting their own service records!) so having to pay something now from our own sources doesn't surprise me in the least...and I think it's long in coming.

 

BUT...by charging, the sources need to improve their service (and this goes for the NPRC too). Charging and with poor service IS something to complain about...

 

My "devils advocate" two cents...

 

Dave

[kyhistorian01]

I have never sent a request for an IDPF, but I have written several requests for infomration under the Freedom of information Act to the National Personnel Records Center in regard to the service of veterans who saw WWII service and retired in the 1950s or 1960s. Each time I have recieved the information as well as a good photocopy of a photo of the veteran when it was in the file and I have never been charged.

 

Robert

[ctink1863]

St. Louis is charging for copies and has been charging for awhile. $20.00 for a 3 page final pay army pay voucher and if you are into Navy and Marine Corps info, copies of complete files prior to 1939 are now $60.00.

[Jack's Son]

 

BUT...by charging, the sources need to improve their service (and this goes for the NPRC too). Charging and with poor service IS something to complain about...

 

Dave

The letter is careful to state that the demand is so great, that it will take up to 24 weeks

to process the request.

 

Then in the next paragraph, it recites the fee schedule.

 

Two mutually exclusive events, I'm sure.

[Kadet]

Sometimes AHRC charges for IDPFs, sometimes they don't. In one case they charged me $30. I sent them a check, but it took them over 4 months to cash it. We all have to keep in mind that AHRC is THE Army Human Resource Command, ie it runs all of the ongoing personnel related functions for the active duty army. As Dave mentions, I'm sure they are slammed w/ day to day stuff that, frankly, is far more important that our collections. Our requests go to the FOIA office, which is probably very small. FOIA offices of large military commands are usually quite busy w/ a myriad of requests. They must respond to a FOIA request. IMO charging a fee is really just a "gut check" to see how bad you actually want the info. Their letter back to you is the "response" required by law. I'm also sure the budget factors in as well. Military budgets have been slashed recently. Bottom line: we should all realize that we are a low priority for them, and thats OK...they are supporting a lot of men and women in harm's way.....

[kriegsmodell]

Very well said Andy!

[MWalsh]

One also has to keep in mind that as with many things, the advent of the Internet changed the game entirely when it came to FOIA requests of any sort, and especially so in terms of IDPF's.

 

What people used to have to hunt and peck to find out about via many letters back and forth over time, well heck, right now if you Google "IDPF" you will probably get "hits" from thousands of different geneaology related websites, all of which, when clicked on, will say "write to this address for the IDPF". So now... everyone writes to get IDPF files. EVERYONE from uncles to cousins to old neighbors to us collectors. The information and how to get it is SO accessible. And like Dave said, that command is most likely grossly understaffed and always probably has been, then add in this internet created monster (as they probably see it!) and now you have 6 month waits and $30+ fees.

 

I used to regularly request IDPF files but then basically stopped. Honestly, in most cases all it ever did was give me maybe some slightly more detailed unit info, and maybe a general vicinity where a person was killed (which I could usually find by extrapolation in a unit history book anyway), but beyond that it was all pretty mundane stuff and had little to do with the person killed and far more to do with train schedules for remains coming home, people wanting that final check and those small personal effects, etc. The unit information was all I generally ever was looking for anyway. Even in terms of cause of death, I bet more thyan half of mine say simply "killed in action". So, combine that with the fact that it was starting to cost me mucho $$$ every year, and I started rarely getting them.

 

I recall several years ago one collector (can't remember who) called there and spoke at length to I think their PIO about IDPF's, the time delays, etc. I want to say that one long delay was caused by something like a Congressman requesting IDPF's for ALL the WW2 KIA's in some given geographical area, many many multiples of IDPF's being requested by that person, the information to be used at some or for some veterans memorial... I mention that as an illustration on why it can take so long.

 

I think it would be quite interesting if the OMSA Board could ask some local member to make arrangements to meet with a PIO from the folks that handle the IDPF's and then get the straight skinny on the IDPF's, the info in them, why the delays and costs, how many requests they get per year, etc etc etc. I think it would be a fascinating inside look at the operation which would then answer many questions we as collectors (often of KIA medals) have about our research.

 

Otherwise... in terms of IDPF's - for regular collectors of identified medals... "ya gotta pay to play!".

 

GOOD LUCK!

 

MW

[mvmhm]

I've never been charged, but I've only requested 2 or 3 over the course of several years..however, I also begin each letter with "In accordance with the Freedom of Information Act, I request...."...unless they've changed the FOIA, I don't see how they can legally charge a fee....guess it's time to start those congressional complaints!

 

 

Mark sends

[DwightPruitt]

Have your friends, neighbors or family with differing addresses request them for you.

[Frank_Smith]

They can and will charge fees and can do it legally. FOIA allows you to receive two hours of research time and 100 copies free per request. However, FOIA also provides for trailing or continuing requests. The DOD has interpreted this (and had it reviewed by legal counsel) to be any one or series of requests submitted for related records within a six month time frame. If you submit one request for records every six months and the research time doesn't come out to over two hours and/or greater than 100 copies, it's free. However, if it is more than that, you might get charged if the effort to collect the fee isn't greater than the fee to be collected. Additional charges come into play for trailing or continuing requests. If you submit more than one FOIA request for related records in a six month period that exceeds the fee waiver threshold, they are grouped together for billing purposes and will continue to be so until you have a six month rest period. So if you submit one request every three months for two years, all eight of the requests are grouped together and treated as one and you will be billed as if you submitted them in one batch. I hope this clears things up. Frank

 

 

I've never been charged, but I've only requested 2 or 3 over the course of several years..however, I also begin each letter with "In accordance with the Freedom of Information Act, I request...."...unless they've changed the FOIA, I don't see how they can legally charge a fee....guess it's time to start those congressional complaints!

Mark sends

[Dave]

All -

 

I've combined the two IDPF threads together and transfered them from MISC to Medals.

 

Enjoy!

 

Dave