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M1912 Squad Cleaning Kit - Cleaning Rod Variations

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:think: Hello

Does anyone have a photo of a brass WWI cleaning rod with WWI style brush.and how do I spot a fake on ebay at 50.00 a pop....

I don't mind repo's but I don't want to pay 50 for one...

Also Where can I find a source for real or Reproduction Brass cleaning rods and WW! style brushes? I want a a set of real or a Good set of Fake/Reproduction Brass cleaning rods/WW1 style brushes for my WW1 squad cleaning kit I just aquied. :think:

 

and again what was the WW1 brush made of......

 

Thanks Mark

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Hi Mark!

I tried to put together for you and for anyone interested in some informations on the WWI brass rods and bristle brushes. All rods I will tell you about are in my collection. Measurements are taken from Chuck Clawson's books.

In the picture the following rods. From left:

1) Unknown manufacturer, perfectly round loop larger than regulation size (it is about 1 3/8"), noticeable scrape around the loop (which is also somewhat flat inside) due to bending procedures. It has been observed in Ordnance supply. Tight fit in Squad Kits. Sometimes it makes difficult to close the Kit lid. The one pictured is fitted with an original bristle brush of the period.

2) Springfield Armory, perfectly round loop, 1 5/16" outside diameter (regulation size). Sometimes a small scrape at base of the loop.

3) Springfield Armory, as above. This came in a 50s repacking with a later brass brush (one rod and one brush in each sealed envelope)

4) Pfau Manufacturing Company, Cincinnati, Ohio. Slightly teardrop loop. From April through October 1918, 103.570 pieces made (Clawson).

Not pictured, but in my collection, two unreported and unknown ones: slightly teardrop loop, crude bending procedures left all rods (I have ten all identical) slightly bent. Another variation is a straight shaft one, but again due to bending procedures, the loop is bent out and not in line with the shaft. The fake M4 brass rods are easily identified from originals, if you look at details as patch slot, loop and so...Also if "antiquized" they didn't look like the original ones...

As for the WWI brushes they were made of natural bristle died black. You can identify original from reproduction putting on a flame one bristle: if it burns it is original, if it melts is a reproduction. And obviously the real ones have some patina etc. Reproduction are sparkling new and looks not old at all, if not "antiquized", but also in this case it is difficult to obtain the dull black colour of the original bristles, which - in reproduction - are always very bright and definitely synthetic...

Mark, if you keep your eyes well open, sometimes on eBay good and original WWI brass rods are offered ($ 40-50 each...) and reproduction too (I don't remember the price). In past (two-three years ago) also some original bristle brushes came to eBay and some nice reproduction, but in these last times I didn't see one...

Hope that this can help.

post-8381-1272959337.jpg

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Watch out on the repo brass rods.Some of them are a little too long to fit the box and the diameter of the rods is too big for the slots in the rack.

 

The last few I've tracked on e-bay brought $50 and up.I need nine more but for $450+ I might as well buy a complete box,I've seen some in that price range.

 

Which of Clawson's books reference the cleaning kits and accessory items the best?

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Hello Blair !

You surely know more than me about these repro brass rods... In fact I saw only pictures of these ones. And, really, it is very interesting to know what you say about the length, diameter etc. Thanks ! On eBay, every now and then pops up some good, original WWI brass rod, but - you're absolutely right - the price easily runs over $ 50.00...

As for the Clawson's books, the best for cleaning rods, Kits and so, is surely the "small" one: I mean the third edition (2004) of "Collector's Guide to Colt .45 Service Pistols Models 1911 and 1911A1". On pages 138-139 (Appendix G-H) you will find a lot of informations not previously released in the "BIG" book...And some corrections, too. Take care: there is a little mistake about the post War steel rods marked 5564102 MFI-DAP (1968 contract). In fact the correct marking is MFI-DAL (I have some of them, both marked with small and larger characters). In any case this is a little "big" book which should be in everyone's pocket when chasing 1911/1911A1 pistols and related accessories at gunshops or gunshows...

Fausto

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:think: Fausto, thanks again for the wealth of information..........you need to right a book.....guide to squad cleanig kits.... :D

 

 

Blair...The Clawson books are..... colt .45 service pistols....and guide to colt .45 service pistols....both of which I bought from Chuck Clawson at the Ohio at the OGCA gun show in 1998....and use one's sell for BIG $$$$$$$

 

 

Mark

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Hello Blair !

You surely know more than me about these repro brass rods... In fact I saw only pictures of these ones. And, really, it is very interesting to know what you say about the length, diameter etc. Thanks ! On eBay, every now and then pops up some good, original WWI brass rod, but - you're absolutely right - the price easily runs over $ 50.00...

As for the Clawson's books, the best for cleaning rods, Kits and so, is surely the "small" one: I mean the third edition (2004) of "Collector's Guide to Colt .45 Service Pistols Models 1911 and 1911A1". On pages 138-139 (Appendix G-H) you will find a lot of informations not previously released in the "BIG" book...And some corrections, too. Take care: there is a little mistake about the post War steel rods marked 5564102 MFI-DAP (1968 contract). In fact the correct marking is MFI-DAL (I have some of them, both marked with small and larger characters). In any case this is a little "big" book which should be in everyone's pocket when chasing 1911/1911A1 pistols and related accessories at gunshops or gunshows...

Fausto

 

LOL I bought one of the repos as a reference to compare with the real ones.There might be some accurate repos out there but I haven't found any yet.Usually the rod diameter is too big on the ones I've seen even if the length was right.No loss though,I carry it around in my shooting box.Better a $5 repo as a $50 real deal.I've got one original rod and brush,9 more to go.

 

Thanks to both you and the other poster for the info on Clawson's book.

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