AMCRAFT/GEMSCO AAF wings

[graham]

just learned in the thread about the Amcraft flight surgeon that there is some confusion between Amcraft and Gemsco patterns. Sorry if this is a bit of an old chestnut.

I had assumed all 6 of these were made by Amcraft, only the Service pilot is marked Amcraft.

[graham]

[graham]

 

I now notice the Amcraft service pilot is smaller than the rest and has different detail in the shoulder.

[graham]

So from reading all the other threads it looks like all the unmarked wings in my post are infact GEMSCO.

[pfrost]

So from reading all the other threads it looks like all the unmarked wings in my post are infact GEMSCO.

 

HI,

 

Not so fast, I got to disagree. Here is another thread where this was discussed:

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...emsco&st=20

 

IMHO no evidence exists that these wings are GEMSCO other than some being found on a card marked GEMSCO.

 

In fact, in a side by side by comparison if you look at AMCRAFT marked wings (on the left) next to unmarked "AMCRAFT-like" wings (in the center), next to GEMSCO marked wings (on the right), you can see that the unmarked wings look MUCH closer to AMCRAFT than GEMSCO.

[pfrost]

While it is true the pilot series that are marked AMCRAFT and the unmarked "AMCRAFT-like" series (which all seem to be primarily based on an observer wing with added center device, share some small and minor differences). More than likely because they are from different dies, but those relatively small differences are far more subtle than the STRIKING differences between the AMCRAFT and AMCRAFT-like wings and the GEMSCO marked wings. WHo you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?

 

Other areas where there is more commonality, like the method of using a "forcer" to strike the wings (thus giving the AMCRAFT and AMCRAFT like wings) the characteristic backs are apparent between the GEMSCO and AMCRAFT wings. Again, side by side comparison shows that while their are different, those differences are greater when comparing the GEMSCO to the AMCRAFT and AMCRAFT like wings.

 

It seems that the only evidence of a GEMSCO source with these wings is that one appears on a box with the GEMSCO tag. GEMSCO was a retail company and provided MANY items for sale. It is possible taht they may have contracted out with AMCRAFT to provide some wings at some time. It is also possible that a wing was put in a box at some time in its history. Who knows. Not that it really matters (as it is only my humble opinion), but the similarities of the AMCRAFT marked wings and the AMCRAFT like unmarked wings put them into the AMCRAFT family much more than any arguments that these unmarked wings were made by GEMSCO. They don't LOOK like GEMSCO, they dont feel like GEMSCO--they look and feel like AMCRAFTs.

 

Respectfully yours

 

P

 

BTW next we should discuss how many Democrat angeles can dance on the head of an AMCRAFT pin....heh.

[mshaw]

Patrick wrote:

 

"It is also possible that a wing was put in a box at some time in its history. Who knows."

 

I have found wings and officer insignia under these very circumstances; wing with a certain maker mark in the box of a different maker. Last year I picked up an officer hat eagle that was marked Gemsco on a Beverlycraft card (go figure). I just assumed that the original owner was unconciously playing mix and match with the insignia and the boxes. It could also be kids messing around with dad's insignia in the 1950s and 60s.

[John Cooper]

So from reading all the other threads it looks like all the unmarked wings in my post are infact GEMSCO.

 

 

Graham - there is not absolute proof yet just evidence that shows the possibility hence the name GEMSCRAFT. Until a sales ad or some other material is found it will remain an unknown.

 

I think common lore is Amcraft since it is similar in style but not the same at all. If you look at LGB and AMICO marked "pelican beak" type wings they are similar but not the same and made by two different companies. There is no discussion about those since they are marked but in this case there is just no 100% proof either way. It comes down to the fact they are unmarked wings of a specific pattern.

 

Since GEMSCO used a few patterns who knows... I have an AMICO pilots wing marked GEMSCO... so at least you know GEMSCO either made wings or had them made with pattern attributed to other makers so why not these as well?

 

Additionally I have a bombardier wing in the pattern in question that came on a simple unmarked card stamped sterling so who made it? GEMSCO? Amcraft? or a sub-contractor?

 

I guess it all part of the fun

 

John

[graham]

HI,

 

Not so fast, I got to disagree. Here is another thread where this was discussed:

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...emsco&st=20

 

IMHO no evidence exists that these wings are GEMSCO other than some being found on a card marked GEMSCO.

 

In fact, in a side by side by comparison if you look at AMCRAFT marked wings (on the left) next to unmarked "AMCRAFT-like" wings (in the center), next to GEMSCO marked wings (on the right), you can see that the unmarked wings look MUCH closer to AMCRAFT than GEMSCO.

 

AAAH ! Nothing like a bit of controvercy to provoke a responce. :thumbsup: Yep they sure look like AMCRAFT to me.

Thanks,Graham.

mind you we call a Luxemberg a Luxemberg even if made by Blackinton or A,E & CO so by that token if made by AMCRAFT but marketed by GEMSCO , I guess that makes it a GEMSCO

No, I get it realy I do !

[pfrost]

 

AAAH ! Nothing like a bit of controvercy to provoke a responce. :thumbsup: Yep they sure look like AMCRAFT to me.

Thanks,Graham.

mind you we call a Luxemberg a Luxemberg even if made by Blackinton or A,E & CO so by that token if made by AMCRAFT but marketed by GEMSCO , I guess that makes it a GEMSCO

No, I get it realy I do !

 

BTW....We call them Luxenbergs...

[graham]

BTW....We call them Luxenbergs...

 

spellin neva was my strong pint !

[pconrad02]

OK here is my two cents: I have never seem that , in my opinion, distinctive roller on a GEMSCO marked wing. SO if I see that roller clasp, I think Amcraft!

[Collector Greg]

OK here is my two cents: I have never seem that , in my opinion, distinctive roller on a GEMSCO marked wing. SO if I see that roller clasp, I think Amcraft!

 

Look like AMcraft pattern to me. Most Gemsco's don't look like this.

[pfrost]

spellin neva was my strong pint !

 

At least you be having more betterer grammer than me be.

 

I double checked my AMCRAFT vs GEMSCO vs AMCRAFT-like wings and as Paul says, the catch is different on the GEMSCO.

 

Not that it changes anything, these are all very nice wings, no matter who actually made them.

[Paul S]

I've long been slightly confused by the close resemblance between the 1st pattern LGB and the early AMCRAFT pattern, which to my eye are closer to each other than the AMCRAFT--GEMSCO pieces. So I opened a file where I can accumulate both patterns and named it BALCRAFT. Guess I'm going to need another folder...something like GEMCRAFT.

 

Another puzzling thing about AMCRAFT is that their pilot wings are found hallmarked, including the alphabet versions but rarely, if ever, have I found the other ratings with an AMCRAFT hallmark. I've seen only one post WWII USAF Navigator-Observer wing with an AMCRAFT hallmark. Some fun.

 

PS