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Luxenberg shield study - Legit & Phonies


Paul S
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I've purchased a few Luxenbergs over the past few years and returned all but one. Those returned were either clearly phonies or very suspect once I got them in my hands.

 

Owing to those experiences I've sworn off them as it seems there is an endless supply of novices willing to plunk down some substantial cash to add a Lux to their accumulations as they bypass learning about the less sexy wings my father and his mates actually wore during WWII.

 

There seems to be a steady supply of Lux wings on eBay, many of which I would suspect are not legitimate, most of them bringing $300-$600. A couple that I have qualms about are listed on eBay now or a short time ago.

 

We are fairly familiar with how to look for discrepancies in the hallmarks, shear marks on edges, pits throughout, and overall pattern execution...as well as variances in physical dimensions. Since a lot of that is difficult to see in the eBay pictures, I thought a toss up challenge might be interesting.

 

Below is a grid showing 5 Lux pilots, 2 Blackinton, and 2 LGB representing what we generally view as the top cabin makers of WWII wings. I think 2 of them are phonies and 1 or 2 others could be questionable--but are probably O.K. What do you think and why? And if you are really feeling brave, which are which? :)

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Paul,

I know nothing about wings, as they are out of my collecting interest.

You however, have supplied a unique forum to spark my curiosity.

I applaud your creativeness and enthusiasm in order to help others gain important knowledge.

 

I will watch with interest.

 

 

Thank you,

JS

 

:thumbsup:

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teufelhunde.ret

2, 4,5, and 9 appear to be the real deal - I believe the others are bad based on observation (details) and the reasons you state above. s/f Darrell

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Paul,

Thank you for your efforts to share and teach with this investigative test. I agree with Darrell that illustration #2, 4, 5 and 9 display the most detail in the horizonal and vertical lines in the shields, therefore must be authentic. But I also believe #6, with the irregular smooth spot in the upper right shield, might be legitimate wear, and therefore be a period piece. I'm also not prepared to dismiss #3, with the rather large pit mark in the upper shield, as being a reproduction. I've seen other authentic Blackinton-made wings with a similar blemish. So, I'm going to roll the dice and say numbers 2, 4, 5, 6, 7 & 9 are authentic...and number 3 could be ruled good if given the opportunity to inspect the entire wing. I believe #1 and #8 are your two phonies.

 

Russ

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Upon further review, I rescind my damnation of image #8. I believe #8 is an authentic first pattern Luxenberg hallmarked wing as well.

 

Did you see the second pattern Luxenberg hallmarked Senior Pilot wing sell on ebay last night for $873 bucks? A rare wing....and included as one of the images listed above. More later...

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Here are a couple of Lux type 1 wings I bought and returned. Neither is included in the grid at the start of this thread. Each was represented as good and neither was listed with a good picture...wonder why?

post-3515-1269301675.jpg

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Here is a bit more...this grid shows the makers, prices realized, and votes for and against thus far. If you don't want to venture an opinion in the open, send me a PM and I will log it on an update of the grid. When it appears that interest in this thread has run its course, I have a final point to make and a final grid to post.

post-3515-1269356816.jpg

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O.K. Paul,

 

With all of my "self-proclaimed, know-nothingness", These are my guesses.

 

2, & 9 look legit.

4, I like, it just looks good. (I hope it is ).

3 & 7 look to be phonies.

8, bothers me too.

1,5,&6 I don't like, but I've run out of phonies.

 

Well Paul, this is the "guessing" of the novice you are trying to educate.

I did my best not to read or remember what others wrote, that's why I'm the last to participate.

 

Be kind when you grade ! :blushing:

 

JS

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1,5,&6 I don't like, but I've run out of phonies.

 

Well Paul, this is the "guessing" of the novice you are trying to educate.

I did my best not to read or remember what others wrote, that's why I'm the last to participate.

 

Be kind when you grade ! :blushing:

 

JS

JS, No grading on this one...no limits on positives or negatives either (so, I marked the three you don't like as negs)...ding 'em all if you want. Heck, I'm not sure about some of them either. However, getting some kind of measure of what some of the first-cabin experts we have on this forum could be instructive with regards to how difficult the problem can be, even for the experts. I marked my opinions on the second grid and about some of them I have no opinion. The files are from wings that have changed hands over the past 2-4 years.

 

Paul

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The hardest part about this exercise is that I rarely (if ever) rely on just one part of a wing to determine if it's authentic or fake. Seeing the entire back of the wing is usually the dead giveaway for me on authenticity. I admire people trying to take a crack at solving this puzzle just based on a shield alone. A few of them stand out as clearly cast pieces but others are very hard to identify with just this small sample to work from. I will be intrigued to find out the answers.

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Hi Bob, I purposely picked examples that from what I could see in the original pictures could be pretty easily taken for legitimate even after examining all the other details you mention. By focusing on just this single design element you can function as a flow chart would drive you....go or no go...and move to the next decision point (or is it still called "if, then, else" these days?). There aren't any ringers in here and there is no intention to embarrass anyone. I think some of these are obviously good, while others I'm not so sure, but they may be.

 

PS

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Here is the current status of this question. I marked a couple of wings showing areas on the first row that trouble me. Seems to me that a real Lux should be essentially flawless and when they're not, should be passed.

post-3515-1269550288.jpg

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And the point of my focus on the shield portion of these wings is illustrated below. These 9 wings were made by all different makers from A.E.Co. to an un-marked, non-sterling piece by an unknown maker; several are sterling graduation wings. To my eye, all of these wings share 2 details...the vertical bars are well-defined & straight and the horizontal lines in the top portion should be well-defined and separated. I would think that anything less in legitimate Luxenberg should sound an alarm.

post-3515-1269550893.jpg

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Hi Paul,

 

My two cents are that the LGB's are fine. The others on the other hand are no good. They all lack the neccessary detail expected in wings of that calibre. Luxenbergs and Blackingtons are rare as heck.....unless you look at ebay of course.

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I've had interesting anecdotal experience with "rare" wings over 20 years of collecting, Paul. I have looked at over two hundred original AAF tunics with wings at estate sales, etc and the vast majority of them have graduation or "issue" wings on them. I have five insignia groupings given to me by AAF pilots and every one of the wings is a graduation wing. A mixture of pinbacks and clutchbacks; some marked sterling and some with nothing. I have NEVER encountered an "unmessed with" uniform that had a pair of Luxenberg wings on it or any of the really rare makers for that matter. I have encountered uniforms with A.E. Co or Gemsco or Amico wings but none with the English or Australian makers. I'm sure they are out there since I don't think the makers manufactured them just for collectors to covet 70 years later but it is interesting that we pursue the rare stuff with such zeal and the men who were sitting in the cockpit or manning the .50 Caliber Browning were most likely wearing a basic issue wing.

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Mark, there is no question in my mind that you are spot on with your observation. My father had 4 full-size wings in his accumulation, all of them of the graduation variety.

 

When you consider that the AAF was only about 2-3% of the size in 1940 that it would become in 1943, just 3-years later, you can get a sense of the utter madhouse it must have been ramping up that force. Far and away, the majority of those trainees were headed for combat zones and the training schools were churning out lads earning their wings out by the tens of thousands. Few of them, I suspect, had the luxury of time to contemplate sartorial matters, much less shop for more stylish wings.

 

However, I think it likely that those in the AAF stationed stateside and assigned to jobs in the larger cities around the USA are most likely the original buyers of the rarer wings--I think larger cities is most likely where those rarer wings were mostly sold. I suspect also that they were often sold directly to family members as keepsakes and perhaps a few higher ranking officers who had the time to shop for their military badges with an eye to style.

 

Most of the kids earning those wings were assigned to stateside training bases near the middle of nowhere out in the SW deserts. And as a former kid in the service myself, I can attest to the fact that spending what little down time I had looking for something fancy for my uniform to replace something I already had never entered my mind, nor of any of my running mates.

 

PS :)

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Mark, there is no question in my mind that you are spot on with your observation. My father had 4 full-size wings in his accumulation, all of them of the graduation variety.

 

When you consider that the AAF was only about 2-3% of the size in 1940 that it would become in 1943, just 3-years later, you can get a sense of the utter madhouse it must have been ramping up that force. Far and away, the majority of those trainees were headed for combat zones and the training schools were churning out lads earning their wings out by the tens of thousands. Few of them, I suspect, had the luxury of time to contemplate sartorial matters, much less shop for more stylish wings.

 

However, I think it likely that those in the AAF stationed stateside and assigned to jobs in the larger cities around the USA are most likely the original buyers of the rarer wings--I think larger cities is most likely where those rarer wings were mostly sold. I suspect also that they were often sold directly to family members as keepsakes and perhaps a few higher ranking officers who had the time to shop for their military badges with an eye to style.

 

Most of the kids earning those wings were assigned to stateside training bases near the middle of nowhere out in the SW deserts. And as a former kid in the service myself, I can attest to the fact that spending what little down time I had looking for something fancy for my uniform to replace something I already had never entered my mind, nor of any of my running mates.

 

PS :)

 

That makes perfect sense, Paul. Especially the part about the big cities. I suspect that a lot of the high end insignia and uniforms were purchased by personnel stationed with the War Department in and around Washington and other big cities.

 

I suspect that cost would be a factor as well. These guys had just lived through the Great Depression and most would have considered it a luxury to spend money on a Luxenberg wing when a perfectly fine wing could be bought for a fraction of the price.

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I have seen a few English wings on uniforms from some 8th AAF vets but your observation is one that I've noticed as well. Nine out of ten guys that I talked to had one or two pairs of wings at the most and they just bought what they could get their hands on. The guys with the English wings needed replacements wings overseas so that's the reason they had them. I haven't been able to find a vet that has had a Blackinton or Lux on their uniform. I know that Cliff has several attributed wings by the rare makers but most of them seem to come from high end officers. I think the typical 1st or 2nd Lt was satisfied to wear whatever he was awarded. Or whatever would attract the ladies!

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