WAC OFFICER INSIGNIA

[Badger]

:think:

Hi Guys,

many thanks for past help.

Just a quickie and sorry to be a pain in the butt, but if we are portaying these personnel, in my opinion, then we owe it to these people to get it right.

Example: WAC OFFICER Captain in Nursing. In "shirtwaist" dress no tunic.

Is it correct that she would wear on right collar of shirt "US" and on left collar "entwined staff of medical arm"

WITH Captains bars on shoulder loops of shirt, same as men officers in shirt dress also with cloth emblem on left arm?

OR, as I have been told also; Captains bars on right collar, and medical device on left collar and NOTHING on shoulder loops?

Can someone please advise, as on "BlitzkriegBaby" it states and I quote "Collar and lapel insignia consisting of the "US insignia" and the "Pallas Athene" ( or sometimes the insignia of another Army branch) I take it Nursing? were worn on the service jacket, wool field jacket, SHIRTWAIST (if the jacket was removed)" unquote.

Also same source: WAC Officers Rank insignia; Quote " worn on shoulder loops of overcoats,jackets, and SHIRTS( bars leaves and eagles for commisioned officers same as Army officers of corresponding grade" unquote

Also, last thing, would females wear medals ribbons above top left pocket in SHIRTWAIST dress?

Anyone help please.

Thanks

 

badger

[flyer333555]

:think:

Hi Guys,

many thanks for past help.

Just a quickie and sorry to be a pain in the butt, but if we are portaying these personnel, in my opinion, then we owe it to these people to get it right.

Example: WAC OFFICER Captain in Nursing. In "shirtwaist" dress no tunic.

Is it correct that she would wear on right collar of shirt "US" and on left collar "entwined staff of medical arm"

WITH Captains bars on shoulder loops of shirt, same as men officers in shirt dress also with cloth emblem on left arm?

OR, as I have been told also; Captains bars on right collar, and medical device on left collar and NOTHING on shoulder loops?

Can someone please advise, as on "BlitzkriegBaby" it states and I quote "Collar and lapel insignia consisting of the "US insignia" and the "Pallas Athene" ( or sometimes the insignia of another Army branch) I take it Nursing? were worn on the service jacket, wool field jacket, SHIRTWAIST (if the jacket was removed)" unquote.

Also same source: WAC Officers Rank insignia; Quote " worn on shoulder loops of overcoats,jackets, and SHIRTS( bars leaves and eagles for commisioned officers same as Army officers of corresponding grade" unquote

Also, last thing, would females wear medals ribbons above top left pocket in SHIRTWAIST dress?

Anyone help please.

Thanks

 

badger

 

 

Follow Blitzkriegbaby.

 

WACs had nothing at all to do with anything nursing. Medical was ANC or Army Nurse Corps. Those are two different organizations!

 

WACs took care of stenography, mechanics, clerk, warehouses. And a miriad other small and bigger jobs except nursing. Use the walking buzzard insignia for WAAC; Pallas Athena insignia for WACs; and the winged staff for ANC.

[Badger]

Follow Blitzkriegbaby.

 

WACs had nothing at all to do with anything nursing. Medical was ANC or Army Nurse Corps. Those are two different organizations!

 

WACs took care of stenography, mechanics, clerk, warehouses. And a miriad other small and bigger jobs except nursing. Use the walking buzzard insignia for WAAC; Pallas Athena insignia for WACs; and the winged staff for ANC.

Hi

OK many thanks for reply and putting me straight,female uniform etc.new field for me (this is all for is for wife, so please excuse my ignorance on the matter we are discussing!) so would the layout in "Shirtdress" for officer in WAC be like Blittzkrieg baby states; "US" on right collar, "Pallas Athena", as you state NOT winged staff, as I said on left collar and Captains "Bars" on the shoulder loops? Want to get it right!! What about cap, Garrison or stiff peaked type or either and what insignia on front?

Many thanks for you time/trouble.

 

badger

[fortworthgal]

There were WACs assigned to the medical corps. A WAC would never wear the Nurse's insignia (caduceus with "N") even if assigned to the medical corps. She would wear either the Pallas Athene or the plain caduceus, or one of the other cadeuceus, depending on where she was assigned ("A" for Administrative, etc.) WACs even had a specific hospital work dress for medical or dental work, so yes, it did happen that WACs were assigned to medical duties.

 

I'm confused though - is the uniform for a WAC officer assigned to the Medical Corps, or an Army Nurse?

 

You are talking about the insignia worn on a shirt with the skirt, no jacket - right?

 

For WAC officer:

- rank bar on the right collar

- Pallas Athene insignia on the left

- no medals or ribbons, nothing on shirt epaulets

- visor cap with US Army shield, or early WAAC "walking buzzard shield" or overseas cap with rank bar

 

For Army Nurse:

- rank bar on right collar

- ANC caduceus on the left

- no medals or ribbons, nothing on shirt epaulets

- visor cap with US Army shield, or overseas cap with rank bar

 

I think the confusion may be relating to the off-duty dress. This was a one-piece wool dress that were issued to Nurses and WACs (2 different dress styles). When wearing that, officers would wear the US and branch of service insignia (caduceus or Pallas Athene) on the collar, and the rank bars on the epaulets.

 

For a shirt and skirt with no jacket, just remember - rank & branch of service on the collar, nothing on epaulets, and no medals or ribbons.

 

I hope this clears things up.

[Badger]

Follow Blitzkriegbaby.

 

WACs had nothing at all to do with anything nursing. Medical was ANC or Army Nurse Corps. Those are two different organizations!

 

WACs took care of stenography, mechanics, clerk, warehouses. And a miriad other small and bigger jobs except nursing. Use the walking buzzard insignia for WAAC; Pallas Athena insignia for WACs; and the winged staff for ANC.

 

Hi

Apparently, according to "FortworthGal" WACs could be assigned to nursing when they would wear the plain "cadeuceus" or winged staff without the "N" symbol, or just the Pallas Athena??

Who right?

Badger.

[Abby K-9]

WACs were not assigned to "nursing" - they were assigned to a medical facility. You can work in a medical facility and have nothing at all to do with nursing or medicine, such as administrative staff, clerks, etc. Only nurses are assigned to do actual "nursing", though WACs could be working as, for example, laboratory technicians, which would still be medical but definitely not nursing.

 

What impression is your wife actually putting together? That of a WAC or that of an Army Nurse? What does she want to do? I think if your wife does WAC, she should stick with the WAC insignia, and if she does Nurse, she should go with Nurse insignia.

[Badger]

There were WACs assigned to the medical corps. A WAC would never wear the Nurse's insignia (caduceus with "N") even if assigned to the medical corps. She would wear either the Pallas Athene or the plain caduceus, or one of the other cadeuceus, depending on where she was assigned ("A" for Administrative, etc.) WACs even had a specific hospital work dress for medical or dental work, so yes, it did happen that WACs were assigned to medical duties.

 

I'm confused though - is the uniform for a WAC officer assigned to the Medical Corps, or an Army Nurse?

 

You are talking about the insignia worn on a shirt with the skirt, no jacket - right?

 

For WAC officer:

- rank bar on the right collar

- Pallas Athene insignia on the left

- no medals or ribbons, nothing on shirt epaulets

- visor cap with US Army shield, or early WAAC "walking buzzard shield" or overseas cap with rank bar

 

For Army Nurse:

- rank bar on right collar

- ANC caduceus on the left

- no medals or ribbons, nothing on shirt epaulets

- visor cap with US Army shield, or overseas cap with rank bar

 

I think the confusion may be relating to the off-duty dress. This was a one-piece wool dress that were issued to Nurses and WACs (2 different dress styles). When wearing that, officers would wear the US and branch of service insignia (caduceus or Pallas Athene) on the collar, and the rank bars on the epaulets.

 

For a shirt and skirt with no jacket, just remember - rank & branch of service on the collar, nothing on epaulets, and no medals or ribbons.

 

I hope this clears things up.

 

Hi

thanks for reply, sorry for confusion caused!

We have obtained a WAC officers shirt/dress, no tunic(as yet)

WACgear had attached to it nursing insignia.Rank insignia on right hand collar, plain cadeuceus on left collar, no problem.

Now on www.blitzkriegbaby.com it states " Collar and lapel consisting of US insignia and the Pallas Athene(or sometimes the insignia of another Army branch) were worn on; the service jacket

wool field jacket (Ike jacket)

SHIRT WAIST (if jacket removed)

WAC off-duty dress

WAC hospital dress

No collar and lapel insignia were worn on overcoats rain coats or M43 field jackets"

NO problem, we understand that!

THEN UNDER another section INSIGNIA part 111 "How to recognise Enlisted and Officer's Uniforms"

It states: *Rank Insignia: worn on shoulder straps or loops of overcoats,jackets, coats AND SHIRTS (bars,leaves, and eagles for commissioned officers same as Army officers of corresponding grade) Obviously Lieut. Captain Lt.Colonel Colonel, no problem with that.

So I am assuming this means that when in SHIRT DRESS/SKIRT ONLY (NO JACKET ON) they would wear rank bars on each shoulder loop, US on left shirt collar and plain cadeuceus or Pallas Athene on right hand shirt collar.

This is how Male Army Officers wear theirs when SHIRT DRESS ONLY (NO Tunic/Jacket)?

IT DEFINITELY STATES " shoulder straps or loops" Well we have shoulder straps on WAC shirt.

So, which is right?

 

Thanks

 

badger

[Badger]

WACs were not assigned to "nursing" - they were assigned to a medical facility. You can work in a medical facility and have nothing at all to do with nursing or medicine, such as administrative staff, clerks, etc. Only nurses are assigned to do actual "nursing", though WACs could be working as, for example, laboratory technicians, which would still be medical but definitely not nursing.

 

What impression is your wife actually putting together? That of a WAC or that of an Army Nurse? What does she want to do? I think if your wife does WAC, she should stick with the WAC insignia, and if she does Nurse, she should go with Nurse insignia.

 

Hii

thanks for reply, save typing it all out again look at reply I just posted to Fortworthgal.

Portraying WAC Officer not ANC Officer, in shirt/dress ONLY @ moment (no tunic found as yet in her size)

 

Regards

 

badger

[flyer333555]

Hi

Apparently, according to "FortworthGal" WACs could be assigned to nursing when they would wear the plain "cadeuceus" or winged staff without the "N" symbol, or just the Pallas Athena??

Who right?

Badger.

 

 

After I read a post re Blitzkriegbaby I think you made, or at a different website, and based on information appeared on them, I have to agree on Fortworthgal :thumbsup: advice:

 

If a lady is portraying a WAC at a medical facility, she can wear either the plain caduceus and rank, or the Pallas Athenae and rank. She is still a WAC and not ANC either way. And she would not have done nursing, but could have done admin, maintenance, staffing functions.

 

Recalling from information that appeared on those websites:

 

"WAC assigned to the Service Corps would wear either the Pallas Athenae or the branch of service of the unit assigned to, whereas WACs assigned to the Ground Forces would wear the Pallas Athena only."

 

Service Corps were branches like Medical, Transportation, and others not involving ground combat. Ground Forces were all the combat branches: Infantry, Armor, Artillery, Coast Artillery, etc. Why? Because the message was, "no woman was to be involved in combat, no women could wear a combat branch insignia." :think:

 

Luis Ramos

[Abby K-9]

So I am assuming this means that when in SHIRT DRESS/SKIRT ONLY (NO JACKET ON) they would wear rank bars on each shoulder loop, US on left shirt collar and plain cadeuceus or Pallas Athene on right hand shirt collar.

 

WACs were able to wear the khaki shirtwaist and khaki skirt in summer without the jacket, indoors and outdoors. When the shirtwaist was worn without the jacket, officer's rank was placed on the right collar and the WAC insignia or branch of service inisginia on the left collar. (Right and left being from the point of view of the person wearing the shirt, not someone standing in front of her looking at her.) Enlisted members wore rank on their sleeves with US on the right collar and the WAC or branch of service insignia on the left collar, if memory serves.

 

If the uniform was worn with the jacket, the shirt had no insignia on the collar. If the WAC took her jacket off while performing duties indoors, there would be no insignia on the shirt other than enlisted rank (if applicable).

 

Attached - group photo of WAC officers wearing various shirts. Rank is on collar, not shoulder.

[Abby K-9]

WAC Warrant Officer. Rank & Warrant insignia on collar.

[fortworthgal]

Just put the rank and Pallas Athene on the collar of the blouse and be done with it. Yes WACs could have been assigned to medical duties (just as WAVES were), but it would not have been Nursing.

 

Is it a SHIRT or a DRESS that you have?

 

Yes the WAC officer's blouses did have epaulets on the shoulders, and yes men wore rank on their epaulets. Women rarely did, just the rank & branch on the collar of the shirt (when worn with no jacket, as you are asking).

 

I hope this helps.

[Badger]

WACs were able to wear the khaki shirtwaist and khaki skirt in summer without the jacket, indoors and outdoors. When the shirtwaist was worn without the jacket, officer's rank was placed on the right collar and the WAC insignia or branch of service inisginia on the left collar. (Right and left being from the point of view of the person wearing the shirt, not someone standing in front of her looking at her.) Enlisted members wore rank on their sleeves with US on the right collar and the WAC or branch of service insignia on the left collar, if memory serves.

 

If the uniform was worn with the jacket, the shirt had no insignia on the collar. If the WAC took her jacket off while performing duties indoors, there would be no insignia on the shirt other than enlisted rank (if applicable).

 

Attached - group photo of WAC officers wearing various shirts. Rank is on collar, not shoulder.

Hi

thanks, yes I realise the view of the shirtr collar: left/right from my own Officers Uniform, what I wanted to know was why does blittzkriegbaby.com, say rank is worn on shoulder loops when dressed IN SKIRT AND SHIRT ORDER only?? NOT WEARING A TUNIC.

You say and Fortworthgal it is never so! For myself my head hurts, all I wanted to do was get it right so no smartass armchair expert at a show comes up to my wife and says "that's not right" it should me so and so!!!

 

Thanks for your help

 

badger

[fortworthgal]

Being a female she will probably get the smartass armchair expert anyway! Many male reenactors seem to get some great enjoyment out of trying to apply male uniform standards to women's uniforms, and it is almost always wrong. (Of course they never want to hear that!) I can't tell you the number of times I've had a man tell me I need to take my hat off indoors (women didn't during WWII), or that my insignia is wrong, I'm wearing the wrong color shoes, women "never wore" such and such item (my favorite), why am I wearing such and such, etc. It will be best for her to have a thick skin and carry a couple of supporting photographs with her to events.

 

Blitzkriegbaby might just have the info wrong, I don't know. I did see where she says that, but I must say I have rarely (if ever) seen it done in photographs. Katy is very knowledgeable and perhaps she pulled the information from a booklet or something. Regardless, when wearing shirt with no tunic - insignia on the collar, not on the shoulders. There are tons of photos to back that up.

[D.A.T.]

Maybe this will help a little, seems informative and lots of photos, if you haven't seen it already. I found the website stumbling around, like most things.

http://library.uncg.edu/dp/wv/find.aspx

[Badger]

Being a female she will probably get the smartass armchair expert anyway! Many male reenactors seem to get some great enjoyment out of trying to apply male uniform standards to women's uniforms, and it is almost always wrong. (Of course they never want to hear that!) I can't tell you the number of times I've had a man tell me I need to take my hat off indoors (women didn't during WWII), or that my insignia is wrong, I'm wearing the wrong color shoes, women "never wore" such and such item (my favorite), why am I wearing such and such, etc. It will be best for her to have a thick skin and carry a couple of supporting photographs with her to events.

 

Blitzkriegbaby might just have the info wrong, I don't know. I did see where she says that, but I must say I have rarely (if ever) seen it done in photographs. Katy is very knowledgeable and perhaps she pulled the information from a booklet or something. Regardless, when wearing shirt with no tunic - insignia on the collar, not on the shoulders. There are tons of photos to back that up.

Hi

thank you very much, going for collar rank/insignia and sod the rest!

Thanks for your time/trouble.

 

badger ( In the "SHIRES" ENGLAND)

[Badger]

Maybe this will help a little, seems informative and lots of photos, if you haven't seen it already. I found the website stumbling around, like most things.

http://library.uncg.edu/dp/wv/find.aspx

 

Hi

thank you for your time/trouble.very interesting site. Passing on to wife, appreciated.

Regards

 

badger In The "SHIRES" ENGLAND

[Badger]

:thumbdown: I have just seen black and white photo on E-bay SHOWING WAC in "shirt/skirt order"wearing three medal ribbons on shirt above right hand pocket!!! t

There were WACs assigned to the medical corps. A WAC would never wear the Nurse's insignia (caduceus with "N") even if assigned to the medical corps. She would wear either the Pallas Athene or the plain caduceus, or one of the other cadeuceus, depending on where she was assigned ("A" for Administrative, etc.) WACs even had a specific hospital work dress for medical or dental work, so yes, it did happen that WACs were assigned to medical duties.

 

I'm confused though - is the uniform for a WAC officer assigned to the Medical Corps, or an Army Nurse?

 

You are talking about the insignia worn on a shirt with the skirt, no jacket - right?

 

For WAC officer:

- rank bar on the right collar

- Pallas Athene insignia on the left

- no medals or ribbons, nothing on shirt epaulets

- visor cap with US Army shield, or early WAAC "walking buzzard shield" or overseas cap with rank bar

 

For Army Nurse:

- rank bar on right collar

- ANC caduceus on the left

- no medals or ribbons, nothing on shirt epaulets

- visor cap with US Army shield, or overseas cap with rank bar

 

I think the confusion may be relating to the off-duty dress. This was a one-piece wool dress that were issued to Nurses and WACs (2 different dress styles). When wearing that, officers would wear the US and branch of service insignia (caduceus or Pallas Athene) on the collar, and the rank bars on the epaulets.

 

For a shirt and skirt with no jacket, just remember - rank & branch of service on the collar, nothing on epaulets, and no medals or ribbons.

 

I hope this clears things up.