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"AWESOME" War Hero Uniform on eBay!


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I've seen a few uniforms with the ruptured duck sewn on the pocket flap...seen them on the inside of coats too. It's odd, but there's a lot of weirdness with the Ducks -- that khaki one I think was for shirts, but it's on the jacket -- seen that before plenty of times, and the OD one on khaki shirts as well. I think I've got USMC blues with the OD silk duck on 'em instead of the navy blue and yellow ones. Anyhow, lot of "inconsistencies" with that patch.

 

Also -- it's way outside my collecting realm, but that caterpillar club pin is a fairly scarce one, isn't it? If so, and if this one is real, it may be worth it to buy that stuff and keep the Caterpillar stuff and hack up the rest. Been seeing WWII Silver Star and DSC ribbon racks brining big dollars lately. I dunno. Even sometimes with fake stuff, there's a considerable amount of value in the mis-matched hodgepodge of stuff they used to do it. Just a thought.

 

Hi,

 

The caterpillar pin appears to be the Switlick company version which is rarer than the Irving company version. I have only seen a few Switlick pins. Consindering the number awarded you would expect to find more of them. Thelast one I saw for sale was priced at $300.

 

Gary B

ANA LM #1201868, OMSA LM #60, OVMS LM #8348

 

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If you look hard enough, you can get to the bottom of most things. Sgt. Carothers appeared in a newsreel in 1945. The details of the footage are courtesy of footagefarm, a website that sells archival video:

 

Personalities In The War News

 

General Hodges welcomed to Atlanta; out of plane, greeted by Governor Arnold of Georgia. Motorcade thru city. Hodges with wife big crowd waving, applauding.

 

21:19:20 General Doolittle Honored by King George: King & Queen Elizabeth out of car, greeted by Doolittle, reviewing troops. King awards medal to Doolittle. CU medal.

 

21:19:53 Sgt. Carothers has 168 Points; fights On; Veteran adds up his points on blackboard. CU medals on his chest; shows his mother hand-drawn map of Japan then throws darts with map. CU Sgt.

 

WWII Homefront; Military Homecoming; Heroes

 

It would be fascinating to see the CU (closeup) of the medals on his chest at that time. Here is the link to footagefarm's website:

 

http://footagefarm.com/item/page:348

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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=290401878058

 

This guy was the War Hero of War Heroes!

 

Anyone want to pick out what's wrong with his uniform?

 

Dave

 

Ancestry.com surely doesn't make it easy to get a clear shot of a newspaper photo...but here is Sgt. Carothers in May, 1945, with a view of his ribbon bar as of that date. How does it compare to the ebay uniform?

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Looks like he's wearing one DFC, Air Medal with 3(?) OLCs, one Purple Heart, Good Conduct (no knots), American Defense with star, unidentified (Croix de Guerre maybe?), American Campaign, Europe-Africa-Middle East with one battle star, and Asia-Pacific with two battle stars. Not even close to the uniform on eBay. :think:

Jeff C.

USMF Member #2275

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  • 2 weeks later...
...This uniform is back up for sale, sans the top row of ribbons w/ DSC, etc...

post-1963-1268005829.jpg

 

This is a rare opportunity to own a dress jacket of one of the most highly decorated tail gunners of WWII.

 

Please note in response to some inquiries -- Carothers joined the Army in 1938 and was in the infantry until he entered the Army Air Corps in 1943 and went to Air Gunnery School in Arizona. I have added a copy of a Denver Post story of 20 June , 1945. This is a revised listing and meets eBay guidelines and regulations. It does not include any banned items.

 

The details are lengthy. Sgt. Carothers earned his Caterpillar membership/pin and Soldier’s medal on 16 January 1945 over England, when he had to bail out of his B-17 at 12,000 feet (details to follow). A letter from Gen. Hap Arnold to Sgt. Carothers lauds him as a hero for “sticking to your guns” and re-enlisting even though he had nearly double the points (168) for discharge. Carothers joined the Army in 1938. He was in the infantry three years, then entered the Army Air Corps and went to aerial gunnery school in Arizona. He was stationed on Trinidad Island, then went to Australia and New Guinea and saw action as a B-17 tail gunner against the Japanese soon after Pearl Harbor. He was eventually sent home for air cadet training but washed out and went back to tail-l gunning. He was sent to England, and just before D-Day, he had completed eight missions, when on his way back over the channel a German shell split his trigger finger. He missed D-Day action but went back to finish it and flew thirty more missions. On 16 January 1945 after take off at an altitude of 12,000 feet the No. 3 engine caught fire and the crew was ordered to bail out. Carothers dropped almost 9,000 feet before opening his chute. He was the first on the ground and noticed two crew members parachuting down over the burning plane. He noticed two unexploded bombs near the flames and then two chutes disappeared into the smoke. He single-handedly ran in to the burning plane where he found the radio operator dead and the pilot injured but alive. He brought the pilot out to safety just a few minutes before the bombs exploded. A 13 May 1945 newspaper column from the Denver Post lists his awards as follows: Distinguished Flying Cross, Soldiers Medal, Air Medal with eleven clusters, Good conduct Medal with second award bar, the European Theater Campaign ribbon with two bronze stars, the pre-Pearl Harbor ribbon with the Bronze star and the Presidential Citation with one cluster. After VE day Carothers entered B-29 flight engineer school and got his crack at Tokyo from a Superfortress.

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Then out spake brave Horatius, the Captain of the Gate:


"To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better than facing fearful odds,


For the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his gods."

 

 

 

 

 

 


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NARA has records on S/Sgt. Harold M. Carothers that cover his entire active duty service of just a few days more than 8 years (June 15, 1938, to July 1, 1941, and December 4, 1943, to December 6, 1948.) See for yourselves how Carothers' official records line up with the uniform on eBay, which is claimed to be his, and the narrative accompanying it.

 

June 1938 - July 1941:

 

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Then out spake brave Horatius, the Captain of the Gate:


"To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better than facing fearful odds,


For the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his gods."

 

 

 

 

 

 


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December 1943 - December 1945:

 

post-1963-1268006051.jpg

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post-24355-0-52548100-1420800713.png

 

 

Then out spake brave Horatius, the Captain of the Gate:


"To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better than facing fearful odds,


For the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his gods."

 

 

 

 

 

 


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December 1945 - December 1948:

 

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Then out spake brave Horatius, the Captain of the Gate:


"To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better than facing fearful odds,


For the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his gods."

 

 

 

 

 

 


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I'm not seeing his name anywhere on any MACRs. If he took off on an airplane and it didn't come back, he should pop up on one.

 

Jon

In memory of 1LT Julius C. Goldman, XO of F/330th, 83rd Infantry Division 1944-45.

Looking for ETO/MTO P-47 and Tactical Reconnaissance Unit photographs and any items associated with WWII Jewish fighter pilots.

Curator of Arms & Armor at the National Museum of the Marine Corps

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Despite being added to by a collector, it looks like SGT Carothers was a stolen valor case as well! No where in his discharge paperwork is his DFC, SS, half a dozen AMs, etc listed....wild!

Only a weak society needs government protection or intervention before it pursues its resolve to preserve the truth. Truth needs neither handcuffs nor a badge for its vindication. -Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy

Peace is not the absence of war, but the defense of hard-won freedom. -Anton LaGuardia


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So, what he SHOULD be wearing is:

 

AM w/4 olc (1 AM per 5 flights = 25 missions)

American Defense (no star)

American Theater

European Theater (3 stars)

WW2 Victory

 

Note... NO Good Conduct...looks like he was busted down early in his career and wasn't entitled for some reason later...

 

He was in the ETO from 19 Oct 44 (MISSED D-Day!) to 23 Apr 45 and then spent Jun-Nov 1947 in Guam.

 

NEVER flew in B-29s

 

NEVER flew in the PTO

 

NEVER was shot down

 

NEVER flew on D-Day

 

WOW

 

Dave

Only a weak society needs government protection or intervention before it pursues its resolve to preserve the truth. Truth needs neither handcuffs nor a badge for its vindication. -Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy

Peace is not the absence of war, but the defense of hard-won freedom. -Anton LaGuardia


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...NO Good Conduct...looks like he was busted down early in his career and wasn't entitled for some reason later...

Regardless of the cause for Corporal Carothers' reduction to private in Feb. 1941, he would not have been eligible for a Good Conduct Medal for service during his first enlistment: "The Good Conduct Medal was established by Executive Order 8809, dated 28 June 1941, and authorized the award for soldiers completing three years active service after that date." (source: TIOH).

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Then out spake brave Horatius, the Captain of the Gate:


"To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better than facing fearful odds,


For the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his gods."

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Before this image goes away again, here is the Carothers press clipping collection from the current ebay listing:

 

post-1963-1268271452.jpg

The L.A. Times clipping is dated June 22, 1945. S/Sgt. Carothers was assigned to 1030th AAFBU (Redistribution Station #3), Santa Monica, Calif., from May 9 to June 20, 1945, which presumably accounts for this L.A. Times article.

 

His next assignment was 2132nd AAFBU (Pilot School, Specialized, Very Heavy) at Maxwell Field, Montgomery, Ala. This was the USAAF Training Command's B-29 Transition School: "...April 1945 found B-29 transition training at peak production, with a class graduating every two and one-half weeks. Maxwell authorities announced that the graduates who have been trained in the fundamentals of the B-29s here will go on to advanced training and then to the blazing skies over Japan and Japanese-occupied Asia. When the program ended in the fall of 1945, 728 B-29 crews had [been trained here]..." (link here).

 

S/Sgt. Carothers was next assigned to 3705th AAFBU at Lowry Field, Denver, Colo., on November 29, 1945, where he was discharged from the AUS on December 5, 1945, and immediately reenlisted in the Regular Army on December 6, 1945 (see his ROSs in prior posts).

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Then out spake brave Horatius, the Captain of the Gate:


"To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better than facing fearful odds,


For the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his gods."

 

 

 

 

 

 


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When did he have time to earn the Philippine Defense Medal - did he make a quick flight over to Bataan? The only vet groups I've seen with that ribbon were POW's. Also, the Switlik Caterpillar certificate is current issue, but the pin looks like a good one. IMO the pin is worth at least $400.

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When did he have time to earn the Philippine Defense Medal - did he make a quick flight over to Bataan? The only vet groups I've seen with that ribbon were POW's. Also, the Switlik Caterpillar certificate is current issue, but the pin looks like a good one. IMO the pin is worth at least $400.

 

 

The listing says that the Switlik Caterpillar certificate is a replacement.

 

"Replacement Membership Certificate from Switlik Parachute Co. with small SB caterpiller lapel pin".

 

Again, too much added on to what should be a nice grouping.

 

Bill

Please visit my sell / trade pages

http://s224.photobuc...d237/wgravessr/


 

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...I'm not seeing his name anywhere on any MACRs. If he took off on an airplane and it didn't come back, he should pop up on one...

There was an accident but no MACR (i.e., no missing crew). Here is a summary of the incident:

Mission #114 January 16, 1945 B-17G 43-38392 B/E "Old Crow" with 18BS crash-landed at Ampton, UK during assembly. #3 engine caught fire at 12,000 feet and pilot ordered the crew to bail out. All the crew got out OK, but the explosion of the plane when it hit the ground apparently collapsed the ball gunner's chute, letting him fall the last 150-200 feet to the ground. Pilot: W. S. Jones. 1 Killed in Action. Plane was salvaged.

RTD JONES W S (P)

RTD CLARKE (CP)

RTD BLOCZYNSKI (N)

RTD DOOLEY (B)

RTD NEAL (R )

RTD ALLEN (E)

KIA MAHER ROBERT A (BT) SGT 18 18193045

RTD CAROTHERS (gunner)

RTD CHAFFEE (gunner)

 

And here is even more of the Carothers' saga:

...Harold Carothers, had a fascinating military career in WWII, as related in a letter by Dr. Milton Braveman to MM, Dec 1989, p.26. Harold "outlined a fascinating service record from pre-Pearl Harbor days at Clark Field in the Phillipines, through aerial gunnery school and his 22 missions with the 92nd BG where he was the only survivor of his crew. This was followed by some 20 additional missions with the 95th and 100th Bomb Groups. With each of these groups he lost more crew members and suffered severe wounds. He was returned to the States for R & R and assigned to PR duty to boost the sale of War Bonds. He requested and received orders back to the 8th AF where he was assigned as tail gunner with the Wyatt Jones crew of the 18th Squadron. Only with the 34th BG did he complete a full combat tour. He was at flight engineer school when, at Gen Hap Arnold's directive, Harold was transferred to the Pacific Theater. The second of his two missions in B-29s was the last bombing of Japan. Incidentally, he was over Berlin the first time that city was attacked by the 8th AF."

 

Link here.

post-1963-1268638100.jpg

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post-24355-0-52548100-1420800713.png

 

 

Then out spake brave Horatius, the Captain of the Gate:


"To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better than facing fearful odds,


For the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his gods."

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  • 2 weeks later...
post-1963-1269833108.jpg

 

This is a rare opportunity to own a dress jacket of one of the most highly decorated tail gunners of WWII.

 

Please note in response to some inquiries -- Carothers joined the Army in 1938 and was in the infantry until he entered the Army Air Corps in 1943 and went to Air Gunnery School in Arizona. I have added a copy of a Denver Post story of 20 June , 1945. This is a revised listing and meets eBay guidelines and regulations. It does not include any banned items.

 

The details are lengthy. Sgt. Carothers earned his Caterpillar membership/pin and Soldier’s medal on 16 January 1945 over England, when he had to bail out of his B-17 at 12,000 feet (details to follow). A letter from Gen. Hap Arnold to Sgt. Carothers lauds him as a hero for “sticking to your guns” and re-enlisting even though he had nearly double the points (168) for discharge. Carothers joined the Army in 1938. He was in the infantry three years, then entered the Army Air Corps and went to aerial gunnery school in Arizona. He was stationed on Trinidad Island, then went to Australia and New Guinea and saw action as a B-17 tail gunner against the Japanese soon after Pearl Harbor. He was eventually sent home for air cadet training but washed out and went back to tail-l gunning. He was sent to England, and just before D-Day, he had completed eight missions, when on his way back over the channel a German shell split his trigger finger. He missed D-Day action but went back to finish it and flew thirty more missions. On 16 January 1945 after take off at an altitude of 12,000 feet the No. 3 engine caught fire and the crew was ordered to bail out. Carothers dropped almost 9,000 feet before opening his chute. He was the first on the ground and noticed two crew members parachuting down over the burning plane. He noticed two unexploded bombs near the flames and then two chutes disappeared into the smoke. He single-handedly ran in to the burning plane where he found the radio operator dead and the pilot injured but alive. He brought the pilot out to safety just a few minutes before the bombs exploded. A 13 May 1945 newspaper column from the Denver Post lists his awards as follows: Distinguished Flying Cross, Soldiers Medal, Air Medal with eleven clusters, Good conduct Medal with second award bar, the European Theater Campaign ribbon with two bronze stars, the pre-Pearl Harbor ribbon with the Bronze star and the Presidential Citation with one cluster. After VE day Carothers entered B-29 flight engineer school and got his crack at Tokyo from a Superfortress.

Sold at ebay today for $777.77 (link here). Where will we see it next?

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donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

post-24355-0-52548100-1420800713.png

 

 

Then out spake brave Horatius, the Captain of the Gate:


"To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better than facing fearful odds,


For the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his gods."

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Sold at ebay today for $777.77 (link here). Where will we see it next?

 

 

WAY above parts value...too bad the buyer (and the second high bidder) aren't members of the forum...could have saved themselves a LOT of money!

Only a weak society needs government protection or intervention before it pursues its resolve to preserve the truth. Truth needs neither handcuffs nor a badge for its vindication. -Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy

Peace is not the absence of war, but the defense of hard-won freedom. -Anton LaGuardia


donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif

donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif
donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

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...too bad the buyer (and the second high bidder) aren't members of the forum...could have saved themselves a LOT of money!

Do you suppose the buyer paid with fool's gold?

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donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

post-24355-0-52548100-1420800713.png

 

 

Then out spake brave Horatius, the Captain of the Gate:


"To every man upon this earth death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better than facing fearful odds,


For the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his gods."

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  • 2 months later...
What was the "wearing out" period for Army uniforms in the new Air Force? Would someone really wear a Berlin Airlift and Humane Action ribbon, and NOT have an Air Force uniform?

 

ARCOM was instituted in Dec 1945. What combat action did this guy participate in after that date to be awarded the V device?

 

I believe the use of the Ruptured Duck patch (as opposed to the button) was phased out in early 1947, yet this guy participated in the Berlin Airlift in 48-49?

 

This is so obviously put together, it's laughable. It is kinda fun to try to tell the fictional story based on the rack, howwever.

I concur , to my knowledge the V device was not authorized on the ARCOM seen on uniforms prior to the Vietnam War.

ARCOM was refereed to as the Green Wheenie: Not my words; Bull Simmons when it was suggested buy the SECDEF when they were going to give ARCOM and not Silver Stars as awards for the SONTAY Raiders)

Regards

John

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