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"AWESOME" War Hero Uniform on eBay!


Dave

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Anyone want to pick out what's wrong with his uniform?

 

Dave

 

They forgot to pin on the Medal of Honor?

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market garden

I wonder if the persons making up these uniforms could get in trouble do to the "Stolen Valor" act. Just a thought. Market garden

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Must be Superman's uniform. I mean, can you really do everything he did? Go from theater to theater and all?

 

Here's the description for reference (I'm breaking it up so it's easier to read):

 

This is a rare opportunity to own a dress jacket of one of the most highly decorated tail gunners of WWII. I have never seen another AAF NCO with more decorations. This grouping really belongs in a museum.

 

The details are lengthy. Sgt. Carothers earned his Caterpillar membership/pinand Soldier’s medal on 16 January 1945 over England, when he had to bail out of his B-17 at 12,000 feet (details to follow). A letter from Gen. Hap Arnold to Sgt. Carothers lauds him as a hero for “sticking to your guns” and re-enlisting even though he had nearly double the points (168) for discharge. Carothers joined the Army in 1938.

 

He was in the infantry three years, then entered the Army Air Corps and went to aerial gunnery school in Arizona. He was stationed on Trinidad Island, then went to Australia and New Guinea and saw action as a B-17 tail gunner against the Japanese soon after Pearl Harbor. He was eventually sent home for air cadet training but washed out and went back to tail-l gunning.

 

He was sent to England, and just before D-Day, he had completed eight missions, when on his way back over the channel a German shell split his trigger finger. He missed D-Day action but went back to finish it and flew thirty more missions. On 16 January 1945 after take off at an altitude of 12,000 feet the No. 3 engine caught fire and the crew was ordered to bail out. Carothers dropped almost 9,000 feet before opening his chute. He was the first on the ground and noticed two crew members chuting down over the burning plane. He noticed two unexploded bombs near the flames and then two chutes disappeared into the smoke. He single-handedly ran in to the burning plane where he found the radio operator dead and the pilot injured but alive. He brought the pilot out to safety just a few minutes before the bombs exploded.

 

A 13 May 1945 newspaper column from the Denver Post lists his award as follows. Silver Star, Distinguished Flying Cross, Soldiers Medal, Purple Heart with one oak leaf cluster, Air Medal with eleven clusters, Good conduct Medal with second award bar, the European Theater Campaign ribbon with two bronze stars, the pre-Pearl Harbor ribbon with the Bronze star and the Presidential Citation with one cluster. After VE day Carothers entered B-29 flight engineer school and got his crack at Tokyo from a Superfortress.

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In reference to "what's wrong with the uniform", does anyone have uniforms in their collections with the discharge patch sewn on a pocket flap?

 

Also, does anyone have a uniform with the discharge patch and a berlin airlift ribbon? How late could the discharge occur before the patch wasn't worn?

 

Thanks,

Tim

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What was the "wearing out" period for Army uniforms in the new Air Force? Would someone really wear a Berlin Airlift and Humane Action ribbon, and NOT have an Air Force uniform?

 

ARCOM was instituted in Dec 1945. What combat action did this guy participate in after that date to be awarded the V device?

 

I believe the use of the Ruptured Duck patch (as opposed to the button) was phased out in early 1947, yet this guy participated in the Berlin Airlift in 48-49?

 

This is so obviously put together, it's laughable. It is kinda fun to try to tell the fictional story based on the rack, howwever.

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Starting bid is ONLY a thousand bucks. What a STEAL. Better jump on this one quick.....

 

*snicker*.

 

I love the 'v' on the ARCOM. The mix of plastic covered and "regular" ribbons, and the fading on some but not others (Look at the American Campaign vs the EAME) SHOULD be a dead giveaway to.....

 

Never mind.

 

As far as being in violation of the SVA, no, I don't see that. Unless the seller is claiming to be the 'awardee' of all that fruit salad.

 

Caveat...Emptor...

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The uniform might be a hoax but the soldier is real. Staff Sergeant Harold M. Carothers reenlisted for 3 years in December 1945 (link here). Note his pre-1940 serial number. There a few other interesting (non-commercial) entries about him on Internet. And then there is the evidence of contemporaneous newspaper reports about Sergeant Carothers. It might be worth some time to vet the vet before rushing to scoff at the awards attributed to him.

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ARCOM was instituted in Dec 1945. What combat action did this guy participate in after that date to be awarded the V device?

 

I have a reference book that states the ARCOM as "awarded to individuals whos were commended on or after December 7, 1941".

 

So can the V device be retroactive to his WWII service?

 

Just asking the question and trying to learn ...

 

Thanks,

Tim

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Stinger Gunner USMC

im not defending the uniofrm, as there are a bunch of items that stand out as red flags. However, this could be a uniform that belonged to the vet and was "restored" using awards that he would have worn much later in his career after the 4 pocket uniform was obsolete.

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The uniform might be a hoax but the soldier is real. Staff Sergeant Harold M. Carothers reenlisted for 3 years in December 1945 (link here). Note his pre-1940 serial number. There a few other interesting (non-commercial) entries about him on Internet. And then there is the evidence of contemporaneous newspaper reports about Sergeant Carothers. It might be worth some time to vet the vet before rushing to scoff at the awards attributed to him.

 

He's also listed in the "USAAF Incident & Accident Personnel List" for 1945.

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The website homeofheroes.com has a list of US Army awardees of the DSC in WWII and they have no listing of a SSGT. Harold M. Carothers being awarded a DSC. I don't know that that site is THE be all end all of proof, however they do claim to represent "99% of all DSCs awarded in WWII", so I believe it casts some suspicion on this jacket.

 

Best,

Bill K.

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I've seen a few uniforms with the ruptured duck sewn on the pocket flap...seen them on the inside of coats too. It's odd, but there's a lot of weirdness with the Ducks -- that khaki one I think was for shirts, but it's on the jacket -- seen that before plenty of times, and the OD one on khaki shirts as well. I think I've got USMC blues with the OD silk duck on 'em instead of the navy blue and yellow ones. Anyhow, lot of "inconsistencies" with that patch.

 

Also -- it's way outside my collecting realm, but that caterpillar club pin is a fairly scarce one, isn't it? If so, and if this one is real, it may be worth it to buy that stuff and keep the Caterpillar stuff and hack up the rest. Been seeing WWII Silver Star and DSC ribbon racks brining big dollars lately. I dunno. Even sometimes with fake stuff, there's a considerable amount of value in the mis-matched hodgepodge of stuff they used to do it. Just a thought.

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Umm... I wonder if it ever occured to him that everyone that looked at that uniform questioned the amount of medals he had. Aparently not.

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The website homeofheroes.com has a list of US Army awardees of the DSC in WWII and they have no listing of a SSGT. Harold M. Carothers being awarded a DSC. I don't know that that site is THE be all end all of proof, however they do claim to represent "99% of all DSCs awarded in WWII", so I believe it casts some suspicion on this jacket.

 

Best,

Bill K.

 

Bill

I was given a uniform of a 32nd Inf. Div vet that had the DSC ribbon on it. I got it from the vets friend that servied with him and knows he earned it. He is not on the list either, so that in itself is not concrete either. I keep looking for some documentation on my unifom. If I can't them knowone will believe my jacket is legit either. I e-mailed the name to the guy that runs the webpage and got no responce so I am not sure what that means other than I am no closer to documentation than I was.

Bob

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He enlisted in 1938 and served three years in the Infantry.

 

Was any Infantry unit awarded the Croix de Guerre or given

 

permission to ware the Fourragere in 1941?

 

 

JS

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The fourragere is the WWI version. Units of the 1st and 2nd Divisions as well as the 5th and 6th Marine Regiments had earned it during the Great War. Although, once you left any of these units, you were no longer authorized to wear it unless you were with the unit when it was earned. The fourragere on this uniform is a fantasy add-on.

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I see the auction is no longer on eBay. Guess the auction got pulled because the uniform had a dreaded Purple Heart ribbon!! :o

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What was the "wearing out" period for Army uniforms in the new Air Force? Would someone really wear a Berlin Airlift and Humane Action ribbon, and NOT have an Air Force uniform?

 

ARCOM was instituted in Dec 1945. What combat action did this guy participate in after that date to be awarded the V device?

 

I believe the use of the Ruptured Duck patch (as opposed to the button) was phased out in early 1947, yet this guy participated in the Berlin Airlift in 48-49?

 

This is so obviously put together, it's laughable. It is kinda fun to try to tell the fictional story based on the rack, howwever.

 

My comment has nothing to do with the uniform....wouldn't touch it except to disassemble it into parts again. However; regarding the question about wear-out dates, I posted a photo here a month or so ago that showed a group of USAF pilots gathered around a flightline "roach coach" during the Korean War; the one in the chofolate Ike with the cigar was Maj James J. Jabarra). You can see a combination of USAF blue uniforms along with left over Army chocolates (pinks and greens) all standing together.

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