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Hollow point ammo issued in Viet Nam war?


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Howsabout WWI? I was told by a vet that they used some WWI era hollow point rounds in WWII.

Looking for the following:

452nd and 447th Bomb Group items

Anything 12th Armored- especially uniforms

155th Assault Helicopter Company, Camp Coryell, or Ban Me Thuot Vietnam items[/center]


WWII US Navy Uniforms from the Battle Off Samar: USS Johnston DD-557, USS Hoel DD-553, USS Samuel B. Roberts DE-413, USS Heermann DD-532, USS Dennis DE-405, USS John C. Butler DE-339, USS Raymond DE-341, USS Fanshaw Bay St. Lo, White Plains, Kalinin Bay, Kitkun Bay and Gambier Bay...


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howdy guys , i will search for the article , if I remeber they were 125 gr hp remington 38 special issed to flight crews , happy

 

Howsabout WWI? I was told by a vet that they used some WWI era hollow point rounds in WWII.
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  • 2 weeks later...

The "Hague Convention of 1899," declaration III states:

 

"Declare as follows:

 

The Contracting Parties agree to abstain from the use of bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core, or is pierced with incisions.

 

...."

 

FWIW: The Geneva Protocol of 1925, to the Hague Convention goes on to outlaw the use of biological and chemical weapons.

 

I do believe that these were and still are binding on the US military. I don't believe that the US military issued "hollow point" ammunition to any service personnel (including USAF) during the Viet Nam war (at least not officially and procured through normal supply channels). Ever saying never is is just tempting the fates to prove you wrong, but I would be surprised to find any actual evidence that this was officially done.

"Hope is not a course of action." Sean P. Kelly, SSG, 1st US Ranger Battalion

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Hollow point ammunition is currently issued to USAF military police units for stateside Law Enforcement duties. WCC marked jacket hollow points in 9mm. Their service life is around 6 mouths. Quite often they are left in use much longer. so the SP ends up with a jacketed soft point instead!

 

Have been informed that this is an old practice with the air force dating back to the usage of the .38 revolver. The catch is that the ammo is intended for police duties only, not for "combat" operations. When sent off into harms way the hollow points were supposedly withdrawn and replaced with the FMJ round.

 

But they are an issue item and in the system. Hence available to someone with some "acquisition" talent.

Dirteater101

 

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Old Trooper Gunsmiths

 

"Support your local gunsmith; Shoot something till it breaks!"

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http://www.marines.mil/searchcenter/Pages/...p;s=All%20Sites

 

http://www.thegunzone.com/opentip-ammo.html

 

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2010/...T_ammo_021510w/

 

Here are three references to the use of the M118 Long Range Ammo. Note that it is an open tip but not a hollow point. SMG is correct, and I agree that this was not issue during VN. However, as you will note from the articles noted above, the issue is discussed above to make sure all understand that the open tip ammo is not a "hollow point". This may be the source of the confusion.

 

 

 

 

 

The "Hague Convention of 1899," declaration III states:

 

"Declare as follows:

 

The Contracting Parties agree to abstain from the use of bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core, or is pierced with incisions.

 

...."

 

FWIW: The Geneva Protocol of 1925, to the Hague Convention goes on to outlaw the use of biological and chemical weapons.

 

I do believe that these were and still are binding on the US military. I don't believe that the US military issued "hollow point" ammunition to any service personnel (including USAF) during the Viet Nam war (at least not officially and procured through normal supply channels). Ever saying never is is just tempting the fates to prove you wrong, but I would be surprised to find any actual evidence that this was officially done.

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In case you'd never made the connection, if you ever see reference to "dum-dum" bullets they are talking about hollow-points.

 

 

I thought dum dums were lead nose bullets that had a X cut or filed in them.

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Hollow point ammunition is currently issued to USAF military police units for stateside Law Enforcement duties. WCC marked jacket hollow points in 9mm. Their service life is around 6 mouths. Quite often they are left in use much longer. so the SP ends up with a jacketed soft point instead!

 

Have been informed that this is an old practice with the air force dating back to the usage of the .38 revolver. The catch is that the ammo is intended for police duties only, not for "combat" operations. When sent off into harms way the hollow points were supposedly withdrawn and replaced with the FMJ round.

 

But they are an issue item and in the system. Hence available to someone with some "acquisition" talent.

 

Just goes to show the dangers of saying "never."

 

It's also a bit ironic that service members engaged in "law enforcement" can use ammunition expressly prohibited by international laws of warfare, as if war is some how not as "violent" as extreme law enforcement incidents. Or maybe it just goes to show how nonsensical "laws" limiting the violence of war are. I donno....

"Hope is not a course of action." Sean P. Kelly, SSG, 1st US Ranger Battalion

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I thought dum dums were lead nose bullets that had a X cut or filed in them.

 

I should have been more clear. Hollow points, soft points, and mods would all be included.

 

More correctly stated; the "dum-dum" bullets referred to any "mushrooming" small arms projectile.

Always looking for items related to the 134th Infantry Regiment!

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The US is not a signatory to the Hague, but does generally abide by it. That being said I do believe that the USMC has recently gotten permission to use a 62 grain HP style round for use in Afghanistan.

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According to our wonderful jag office <cough> that hollow points are acceptable for "security duties" but they cause "unnecessary suffering" therefore can not be used in warfare. :pinch:

 

See clear as mud....

 

You can burn them with white phosphorus, shoot them with a 20mm a/c gun, drop 3 tons of explosive on them, turn them into a pin cushion with fleshett rounds, but hollow points are "unnecessary suffering"!!!!

Dirteater101

 

Head Gun junkie

Old Trooper Gunsmiths

 

"Support your local gunsmith; Shoot something till it breaks!"

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As I understand the dum dum bullet to be a full metal jacket bullet which was modified to expose the lead core. The problem with the dum dum bullet was this: Ball ammo of the era had the lead exposed at the base of the bullet, if the jacket at the point of the bullet was disturbed, filed, x'ed, what ever, the expanding gases created upon firing could act upon the exposed lead core at the base of the bullet and push the lead out of the jacket through the damaged tip leaving the jacket in the bore. The next round fired encounters the jacket which acts as a bore obstruction and ruins the shooters day.

 

Anthony

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According to our wonderful jag office <cough> that hollow points are acceptable for "security duties" but they cause "unnecessary suffering" therefore can not be used in warfare. :pinch:

 

See clear as mud....

 

You can burn them with white phosphorus, shoot them with a 20mm a/c gun, drop 3 tons of explosive on them, turn them into a pin cushion with fleshett rounds, but hollow points are "unnecessary suffering"!!!!

You forgot no hitting them with your hands.. :blink:

"How many life's can you justify your battle hymn's". Saxon, Power and the Glory....

 

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—Ulysses S. Grant

 

DBA hoc1983 on ebay. Always nice stuff!

 

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You forgot no hitting them with your hands.. :blink:

 

I know, you will end up on trial for giving some terrorist D-bag a fat lip.....

Dirteater101

 

Head Gun junkie

Old Trooper Gunsmiths

 

"Support your local gunsmith; Shoot something till it breaks!"

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  • 7 years later...

I have heard also that the M2 .50 cal. was not to be used on enemy soldiers. It was only supposed to be used to destroy/damage enemy equipment - so troops were supposed to aim at belt buckles, helmets, uniforms, etc.

Semper Fi!

Sgt. BARney

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Hummmm, what was the quad .50 used for in Korea and Vietnam?

"The true Soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him" G.K. Chesterton

"A people that values it's privileges above its principles will soon lose both" D.D. Eisenhower


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Not many " enemy A/C" in either, lots of other mobile ground targets, and then there were the " Dusters".

"The true Soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him" G.K. Chesterton

"A people that values it's privileges above its principles will soon lose both" D.D. Eisenhower


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