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Tis holster (110138286509) yesterday sold 166.50$ after four guys fought for it. Since at least one year a seller is offering mint unissued RIA1917 swivel leather attachement, obviously he found a crate of spares intended to repair M1912 holsters cause the last RIA M1912 is dated 1915. Well, some genius bought one of these and spoiled a quite nice M1916 obtaining this horrible monster. Anyway the market stated he did the right thing.

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I have a couple of those replacement swivals. I never quite figuered what to do with them. I was involved with a few guys that wanted to reenact punitive expedition cavalry and I thought about doing the same as the "Bubba" holster at auction. I figured I'd be ruining both items from what they are.

 

The only alternatives are to use original M1912s or an El Paso Saddlery replica. THe group was a passing fantsyand didn't last so I never got to the point that I had to decide about the replacement swivals and still have them in unused condition.

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I have an excellent M1912 missing the brass swivel and the leather hook piece and I was tempted to buy one of these spares, but the average selling price was 70$ and sincerely speaking it's not worthwhile. Moreover I should do some aging to this mint attachement. I prefer to wait for a cheap butchered or relic one.


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What a coincidence!! Just today I saw on US ebay the inverted butchery.

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For the education of forum members and visitors who don't know anything about holsters, can you guys explain a little bit about what butchery was involved here and what was the purpose was of these swivels?

 

thanks



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This second holster is a classic M1912 which hangs from the pistol belt trough a swivel intended for the comfort of the cavalryman cause the swivel allows the holster body, secured to the leg by means of the leg strap, to be independent from the piece hooked to the belt. That brass swivel was the weak point of this holster and often broken making the holster unuseful. Usually they replaced the brass swivel or the entire leather attachement but in this case someone took the attachement of an M1916 holster riveting it to the M1912. That means this holster is no longer a collector piece. It could have some interest only as curious if the job would have done in WWI era but the value wouldn't be on the high side as originals.

In the first pic three untouched M1912s: from the right a RIA1913, a left hand private purchase and an unmarked private purchase. The second pic shows the M1912 on the hip of a cavalryman.

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The M1912 holster was designed to hang lower on the body, it was intended to be in a more natural position for where the hand falls, aiding withdrawal of the pistol, the swivel section allows the holster to remain in position, regardless of what position the wearer is in, this is aided by the centrally placed leather strap.

 

There were various complaints of the holster from the field at the time, but in fairness for other equipment also, but there was also praise of the holster, for example "does not interfere with soldier getting clips from his belt", many of the period complaints are of the holster hanging too low.

 

I am not claiming the above converted M1912 is one, but there were very limited official attempts made at converting M1912 holsters to resemble the m1916 style hanger in 1917.

 

Hi Artu44,

On a note about the converted holsters, the fake 1909 you made is the same as these above, but less obvious, which could be considered worse, at least the above are easily recognisable for what they are. if yours was to get out onto the market it would be the same. Imagine in a few years people will ask, why did someone cut up a nice condition holster? That person is not to know it was built from parts, as in the same way we do not know the condition of the above holsters before they were converted.

One good thing is that the seller of the first holster does mention the modifications.

 

Kurt.

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Saw this on the epay and thought some one would like to add it.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/190608761782?ssPag...984.m1423.l2649

 

I talked with the owner and believe this to be a very scarce model (only a few hundred made) with the metal double hook in tube version.

Original leg strap measured 33" according to the owner.

 

I thought the BIN was reasonable or am I way off?

 

Pep


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IMO this is a good deal. They were $300.00 ten years ago, I have only seen one other with the early hook/tube setup in 15 years.


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Sorry, I didn't see that it's a early model with hook/tube. So it's different, it's the first time I see it.

 

Regards.

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I'm hoping I can get ideas on this holster from some of the gurus like Artu44 and Fausto I have had this M1912 Frankenstein holster for a few years now and it just sits in with the extra stuff category everyone has. I got to looking at it and always thought it was a private purchase that bubba had sewed on. I'm not really sure now I can see on the interior where there were additional holes from rivets and old stitching marks. It's also obvious the swivel has been reversed and the bottom leather on the swivel was re fitted on the holster backwards. You can see very, very faint markings on the top swivel leather but nothing can be made out of it. It also has the brass tube and an iron hanger. What do you guys think? :think:


A people that values its privileges

above its principles will soon lose both.

 

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At first sight I'd say it's a nice sample of a RIA pre 1915 body repaired adding a swivel attachement taken from a private purchase M1912. You can see also two holes made in attempt to use a M1910 hook direcly on the body. Swivel was the weak side of M1912s and the prove is that during WWII they ordered RIA replacement swivel attachenents. If you dont care for the top dollars stuff, you can use it for a mannequin with no fear. Look at this 1918 RIA replacement in 1915 style.


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Thanks much for the information I've seen the replacement new old stock swivels like the one you have pictured for sale by S&S militaria.

Someone found a crate full of them and are selling quite cheap. I paid mine about 15$.


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Chris. I have responded to your PM and agree with the two previous comments. I would like to post a photo of my M1912. It is not mint, but fits my gun and accessories well. The Colt was made in Oct or Nov of 1912. Thanks for looking. keith

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Check out my website of Military Relics and Collectibles: http://www.ourboysof98.com
I try to update it by adding several new items each month, so keep checking back.

Thanks,
keith

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And this is my all 1913 rig.


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I was wondering how limited or widespread the use of the M1912 swivel cavalry holster was during WW2?

 

Most known would be the pictures showing 5th US Army commander General Clark wearing one and recently I came across a picture of a 2nd Armored Division MP guarding German POWs in Normandy, France in 1944...

Although not clear it seems he too uses a M1912 swivel holster along with a personally adorned leather motorcycle kidney belt....

 

So, does anyone have more pictures of WW2 use of this kind of holster?


f_poll.gif '29th,Let's Go!' f_poll.gif

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Johan, unfortunately I don't have any pictures of him wearing it but I can tell you that my Grandfather who was in the 2nd AD in WWII wore a M1912. I was given it when I was a kid and like a dummy played army with it until I wore it out...the stupidity of youth...

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in one of the Bando books he has a pic of a paratrooper wearing one

 

 

i also have some 1940/41 images of 1st Cav division wearing them


Always looking for WW2 Cavalry,Pack Mule and Constabulary horse platoon stuff.

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