Anyone have pictures of Paratroopers or Rangers with M1918 Mk1 Trench Knives?

[shocktrooper15]

And one more time 82nd Abn.

 

Where do you find all of these?!?!? :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :bravo:

[Johan Willaert]

Where do you find all of these?!?!? :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :bravo:

 

The answer is books, books, books and even more books....

[gunbarrel]

Gregory,

 

Thanks for sharing them with us! :thumbsup:

[Gregory]

Gregory,

 

Thanks for sharing them with us! :thumbsup:

My pleasure.

The USMF many times does for me its best then I am repaying also doing my best for the forumers in need.

:thumbsup:

[Gregory]

Many years ago one of the US militaria collectors had his website and interesting online exhibition. As far as I know it is no longer available.

He displayed, among others, joint holster/knife gadget coming from paratrooper. There is also historical confirmation in the photograph that such items existed.

[Gregory]

The 82nd Abn, MTO.

[J_Andrews]

BTW though are no pictures, the knuckle knives are mentioned frequently as in use with the 504th from Sicily, Italy, Normandy and even in Holland, per More Than Courage, Phil Nordyke's narrative history of the 504.

 

It also frequently mentions the BAR in use and implies that they were jumped with in Normandy and Holland. Though not TO&E for Para Inf, they were dropped in equipment bundles in Normandy per aircraft load lists, and were often "picked up" and used in ground fighting.

[Gregory]

It means that the US paras were wise and experienced men looking at their service practically, never theoretically.

 

I am not surprised that the paras liked very much the M1918 Mark I trench knives because M3 trench knife could be for everybody but never for the paras and what happened in Normandy to Pvt. Tom Porcella of the 82nd Abn (see D-Day by Stephen E. Ambrose) confirms it very well. For the paras operating in extreme stress during landing on trees or water, as Porcella mentioned, M3 could be deadly dangerous but for them, not for enemy, due to blade imperfection where blade was not fully double-edged. If somebody thought to change the US paras' knives from M1918 Mark Is to M3s then he ought to think about fundamental jump safety standards and the US paras ought to have such M3s as the US Rangers in UK converted them into fully double-edged. Even as a civilian parachutist I have always had to jump with fully double-edged knife according to aviation law and regulations for parachutism.

 

The M1918 Mark I was poorly balanced and had wrong designed scabbard but had giant advantages from paratrooper's point of view. I mean its excellent ergonomics and double-edged blade. Nobody, being under the most extreme stress, could mistake the sides of this knife and how to hold it to cut effectively even in the darkness or under water as Pvt. Porcella mentioned who almost died due to his M3 which has never been designed for parachutism. Highly experienced former USFS smokejumpers who in 1940s many times were advisors and/or jump instructors ought to warn US Army that M3 is not good solution for paratrooper and may be a reason of paratrooper's death in some circumstances. Today nobody knows how many US paras of WWII era died under water in the conditions described by Tom Porcella.

[Plankowner]

Not a paratrooper in the picture, but a kind of "junk on the bunk" airborne equipment picture.

 

[Gregory]

Good picture Plankowner :thumbsup:

It also shows connection of M1916 pistol holster with a scabbard for M1918 Mark I trench knife.

 

Hey does anyone have pictures of Paratroopers or Rangers with M1918 Trench Knives? I need them for my research.

In your research there is one more factor you ought to take into your consideration. The M1918 Mark I metal scabbard was not the best possible idea and, as you can see, the soldiers many times adapted M6 or other leather sheaths to carry in them M1918 Mark I knives. But big circular guard of Mk I did not fit properly leather scabbards designed for small and thin elliptical guards or the other ones with parallel edges. Therefore sometimes big circular guard of Mk I was cut off partially to make this knife with smaller, non-circular, but parallel-edged guard. Such Mark Is, with converted guards, fitted much better for leather sheaths designed with classic belt loops or M1910 hooks.

[glenm]

The 82nd Abn, MTO.

 

IIRC, the Paras in this series of photos have now been identifed as 509th PIB, not 82nd Airborne.

 

Cheers,

Glen.

[Plankowner]

Gregory, I think that the photo you posted of the "Edged Paras" have the same two troopers that are in the photo I posted on page 1 of the Father and Son team. The trooper on the right has that busted nose and neither one has a chin cup on their helmet. The weapons also look the same. It must have been a publicity photo as it looks like they both are wearing B-8 parachutes. I have really enjoyed looking at these pictures. I am waiting for more!

Plankowner

[Gregory]

IIRC, the Paras in this series of photos have now been identifed as 509th PIB, not 82nd Airborne.

Cheers,

Glen.

Thanks Glen for correction! :thumbsup:

 

Gregory, I think that the photo you posted of the "Edged Paras" have the same two troopers that are in the photo I posted on page 1 of the Father and Son team. The trooper on the right has that busted nose and neither one has a chin cup on their helmet. The weapons also look the same. It must have been a publicity photo as it looks like they both are wearing B-8 parachutes.

I agree. It had to be a photo session organized by the OWI.

 

I have really enjoyed looking at these pictures. I am waiting for more!

One more thing I rescued from the website mentioned that is no longer available. I apologize that collector but I did not note down his name and surname. This set looks like based on CS-35-A pouch.

[gunbarrel]

One more thing I rescued from the website mentioned that is no longer available. I apologize that collector but I did not note down his name and surname. This set looks like based on CS-35-A pouch.

 

I agree!

 

[Gregory]

It is interesting how it was connected (glued?). Today it would not be a problem with so many synthetic resin-based adhesives on the market, but then? Maybe airborne divisions had access to maintenance materials for the CG-4A gliders? If so, then Plaskon would be ideal for gluing CS-35-A and metal scabbard. The USA was a pioneer of synthetic resins and Plaskon was the first such a resin glue applied for gliders.

[Plankowner]

Some more display pictures of Airborne equipment with a M-1918 Trench Knife in the picture.

Please excuse the shadow in the middle, it is the fold in the book. A demolition load.

 

Same set up except a load with the bipod and carry case of a 60mm M-2 mortar.

 

Another picture of equipment belonging to a trooper in the 505th PIR? (check helmet marking) Circa 1943.

[Corpsmancollector]

Wonderful thread gents, a wealth of great airborne photos! I love the 'junk on the bunk' 82nd photos from the med. Really interesting series and great for uniform/equipment reference.

 

Will

[Gregory]

I agree -- we have created quite interesting thread and review of M1918 Mark Is in the US airborne troops' hands.

 

The US paras' ingenuity when it comes to M1918 Mark I knives was unrestricted. In the "American Warriors" book (pages 50-51) a para of the 82nd Abn is shown. He attached M8 scabbard to horizontal foregrip of the Thompson SMG. That scabbard served him for Mk I knife.

 

Best regards

Greg

[shocktrooper15]

 

Yes this is most definently a great topic. And yes it is a great reference!

[Gregory]

I posted it in other thread but because it is related to airborne forces I am re-posting it here. Even the TCC aircrews emulated airborne troops when it comes to their combat/survival equipment. Here is TCC aircrewman's close-up from greater image of the airborne and TCC personnel. Who knows, maybe the knife seen was traded from the paras...

[ron_brock]

Thompsons, 1918s, and jumpin out of planes....It just doesn't get any better than that!!!! Thanks for sharing all the pics. :thumbsup:

 

- Ron

[J_Andrews]

#45 is a man of eclectic/cosmopolitan tastes: his life jacket is the British type.

[Gregory]

#45 is a man of eclectic/cosmopolitan tastes: his life jacket is the British type.

Entire this photograph is interesting and full of eclectically equipped men. It might be mixed group of CG-4A/C-47 aircrews. The first standing from left (USAAF shirt + para field uniform) might be a glider pilot, the rest probably C-47 aircrew.

[shocktrooper15]

Some more display pictures of Airborne equipment with a M-1918 Trench Knife in the picture.

Please excuse the shadow in the middle, it is the fold in the book. A demolition load.

 

May I ask which book these photos came from?

[Plankowner]

Shocktrooper15,

The pictures are out of different books so I will list them in the order that I posted the pictures.

1. Father and Son-- U.S. Airborne Forces Europe 1942-45 by Brian Davis, published 1974.

2. Rifle grenades--Drop Zone Normandy by Napier Crookenden, published 1976.

3. Demolition--Paratrooper! by Gerald M. Devlin, published 1979.

4. Mortar bipod--US Airborne in Action by Leroy Thompson, published 1992

5. 505th items--Airborne Album, Volume one:Parachute Test Platoon to Normandy by John C. Andrews, published 1982.

 

Paratrooper and Drop Zone Normandy are hard cover, the others are the soft books that run about 50 pages.

Hope this helps.

Plankowner