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INK STAMP WARNING!!


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Be aware of the ink stamps now being sold on eBay by one particular seller. He is expanding his line of products and includes instructions on how to vary the appearance of his stamps to duplicate different "ages"or appearances. Here is one that I just became aware of that concerns my collecting interest, but he seems to be offering a how-to for fakers in a variety of fields:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/WWII-BOYT-42-RUBBER-ST...=item2558142bd6

 

His stamps may not be perfect, but I think they may be good enough to fool the uninformed or unwary among us-----myself included. Stay informed!!

 

Here's a permanent picture of this "product":

 

Terry "Bagman"

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PLEASE NOTE: THIS COMMUNITY MEMBER, SADLY, HAS PASSED AWAY

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He has 14 different stamps AAC, USN, USMC plus others.

 

Here is his USMC one: http://cgi.ebay.com/WWII-WW2-USMC-Marine-C...=item25580d373c

The three best things in life are a good landing, a good orgasm, and a good bowel movement.

A night carrier landing is one of the few opportunities to experience all three at the same time.

 

You can not pronounce as knowledge anything you can not demonstrate.

 

 

 

 

ASMIC Secretary

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And if questioned he would probably come out with the usual bunkum. :think:

 

It's my way of raising a memorial to the Greatest Generation ????? :crying:

 

Cheers, ' General Apathy '

.

Young enough to care and enjoy militaria - Old enough to remember as surplus

 

" Life's too short for reproductions "

 

 

Life is like a tank of gas, the closer you get to a quarter tank, the faster it goes 

 

.

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A number of previously unmarked original Lend Lease 5 cell Thompson pouches are now on the market from the Ukraine with fresh stamps so be careful if you find yourself in the position of buying one. If the markings smell of fresh ink or dye you should skip on to the next table.

 

This seller is providing all the tools necessary to fake one in country now.

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Looking for original photos and other items from the First World War US 77th Infantry Division.

Also interested in BAR and M1917A1 BMG related items.

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Bad. Very, very bad. Thanks for the heads-up. This will cause some serious problems, that is for sure.....

 

 

-Ski

In Memory Of......
Pte Harold Griffiths, 1805, 1/6th Manchester Regt, KIA June 4th, 1915 in Gallipoli
Cpl Isaac Judges, 40494, 6th East Yorkshire Regt, KIA October 3rd, 1917 in Ypres
May they rest in peace.....

MSgt - USAF Retired

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....and I messaged him my opinion of his stamps. Respectfully, of course.

 

-Ski

In Memory Of......
Pte Harold Griffiths, 1805, 1/6th Manchester Regt, KIA June 4th, 1915 in Gallipoli
Cpl Isaac Judges, 40494, 6th East Yorkshire Regt, KIA October 3rd, 1917 in Ypres
May they rest in peace.....

MSgt - USAF Retired

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A number of previously unmarked original Lend Lease 5 cell Thompson pouches are now on the market from the Ukraine with fresh stamps so be careful if you find yourself in the position of buying one. If the markings smell of fresh ink or dye you should skip on to the next table.

 

This seller is providing all the tools necessary to fake one in country now.

 

Uh-Oh. Are they U.S or U.S.M.C??

Rob Cawte

Interested in buying AIR CORPS items, particularly 8th and 9th AAF id'd medals, uniforms/groupings

 

 

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Uh-Oh. Are they U.S or U.S.M.C??

 

 

Both. One seller in Ukraine offers a variety of markings for original makers. Fortunately he has not found a good way to mark those that are suppose to be marked on the inside of the belt loop.

 

I do not buy direct from any of the former Soviet Republics due to the high level of faked or misrepresented items being sold from there.

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Looking for original photos and other items from the First World War US 77th Infantry Division.

Also interested in BAR and M1917A1 BMG related items.

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Who the heck would even be interested in buying any these stamps, other than crooks or idiots? :blink:

Support our troops...abandoning the War on Terror is not an affordable luxury.

I'm so old, I still call W.W.II U.S. militaria "war surplus".

 

God's blessings in the Name of our Lord Jesus- Jim Robertson

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Who the heck would even be interested in buying any these stamps, other than crooks or idiots? :blink:

 

 

Exactly what I was thinking. If you look at his feedback you can see they have been selling. I cant think of any reason for their use except to fake or maybe for reenacters.

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Exactly what I was thinking. If you look at his feedback you can see they have been selling. I cant think of any reason for their use except to fake or maybe for reenacters.

 

Yeah, reenacting gear would be one honest motive for getting one of these...even so, stuff like this sure makes me thankful that the ol' web collection was pretty much topped out before all these kinds of things became widespread. I sure feel sorry for new collectors these days! :unsure:

Support our troops...abandoning the War on Terror is not an affordable luxury.

I'm so old, I still call W.W.II U.S. militaria "war surplus".

 

God's blessings in the Name of our Lord Jesus- Jim Robertson

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You know, people have been doing this for years. Often the thing that really burns my bacon is when they put the a US stamp on a piece of obviously foreign gear and then try to take somebody. Most often their greed gives them away, they don't know how a piece should be marked so they put the stamp in the wrong place or they use a stamp from the wrong period. How many items have we seen on the forum with USMC markings in the wrong place or on a piece of Army only gear? I appreciate the warning though, Still best to handle as many good items as we can so that we can spot the fakers

Tom Bowers

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Thanks for this heads up. I'm passing it around to those I know who collect in the niche.

HONORING FAMILY LtCol Wm Russell (1679-1757) VA Mil; Pvt Zachariah McKay (1714-97) Frederick VA Mil; BrigGen Evan Shelby, Jr (1719-94) VA Mil; Pvt Vincent Hobbs (1722-1808) Wythe VA Mil; Pvt Hugh Alexander (1724-77); Lt John R. Litton (1726-1804); Bvt BrigGen/Col Wm W. Russell (1735-93) 5th VA Rgmt; Lt James Scott (1736-1817); Capt John Murray, Sr (1747-1833); Capt John Sehorn, Sr (1748-1831) VA Mil; Pvt Corbin Lane (1750-1816) Franklin/TN Mil; Cpl Jesse D. Reynolds (1750-1836) 5th VA Rgmt; Capt. Solomon C. Litton (1751-1844); 1Lt Christopher Casey (1754-1840) SC Mil; Pvt Mark Adams (1755-1828); Pvt Randolph White (1755-1831) Bailey's Co. VA Rgmt; Capt. John R. Russell (1758-1838); Pvt Joseph T. Cooley (1767-1826) Fort Hempstead Mil; Pvt Thomas Barron (1776-1863) 1812; Capt. John Baumgardner (1787-1853) VA Mil; Pvt Joel Estep (1828-1864) Co B 5th KY Inf CSA & US; Pvt George B. Bell (1833-1910) Co C 47th IL Inf US; Cpl Daniel H. Barron (1838-1910) Co B 19th TN Rgmt Inf CSA; Capt Richard K. Kaufman (1908-1946) 7th PRG/3rd AF CCU; T-5 Vernon L. Bell (1926-95) 1802nd Spec Rgmt; PO2 Murray J. Heichman (1932-2019) HQSB/MCRD; PFC Jess Long (1934-2017) US Army; PFC Donald W. Johnson (1931-) 43rd ID HQ; A1C Keith W. Bell (1931-2011) 314th TCW; A3C Michael S. Bell (1946-) 3346th CMS; A1C Sam W. Lee (1954-2017) 2d BW; AW3 Keith J. Price (1975-) VP-10; 1Lt Matthew Wm Bell (1985-) 82nd Abn/SOC








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that guy is a louse no matter how you look at it. these clowns have ruined a field of collecting in the german arena for years and now the gi market is being poisoned by these crumbs. there is no end to what these rip off idiots will go to.

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When you have original unmarked items to work with faking work is very uncomplicated. Couple of photos from a fake marked Lend Lease Thompson magazine pouch. This pouch was sold on Ebay by a Ukrainian seller. Contractor mark is suppose to be BB Inc. which was an actual contractor for these.

 

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Looking for original photos and other items from the First World War US 77th Infantry Division.

Also interested in BAR and M1917A1 BMG related items.

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This is the kind of thing that kills a hobby.

 

I don't know how many of you out there collect TR stuff...I never have, but when I first got into collection, the German collectors vastly outnumbered the US guys. Now that story has changed, and it seems whenever I get my hands on anything German, it's either fake, or even if it is real, nobody wants it because the real stuff is too hard to sell. Too much fake stuff out there to be certain, and too many GOOD fakes. There's definitely still a market for it, but a lot more apprehension on the part of the collectors to spend their money on something that might not be legit, despite all apperances. Same with this stuff -- used to be, if you looked at a stamp and it was worn a bit or at looked like it was factory original, the piece was good. Now, what's to say you don't take a repro belt, slap on some fake stamps have some clown "reenact" in it for a few trips to the field, leave it sit for a while, and there you go...WWII original and it'd be pretty tough to tell the difference.

 

This probably won't kill the market, but it sure won't help things.

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why do you think i sold off my TR stuff? when i first started in 70, there were fakes and as a new collector you never knew until you got burned then you learned fast. german collecting is destroyed. my stuff was good and have a few items left to be sold. and now the trash end of the humam breed has begun to reek havoc on the u.s. market. these people are nothing more then opportunist very willing to steel and cheat with feels of others trashed at the road side.

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I hate seeing these stamps offered about as much as the wood stamps for proof marks. There just is no honest purpose for them. Even as a reenactor, the public does not care about proper acceptance stamps, only competition among reenactors as to who has the most accurate portrayal.

 

- Ron

My vices: The American Civil War and earlier US militaria and the Thompson submachine gun...yes, I know that sounds odd.

President, The American Thompson Association

Thompson Collectors Association

Ohio Gun Collectors Association
Michigan Antique Arms Collectors
Sons of the American Legion

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All,

 

I find these stamps offered on Ebay to be particularly hideous. I submitted the following note to Ebay about the marking stamps a few minutes ago:

 

________________________________________________________________________________

_______________________________________

 

Dear Ebay,

 

I’m writing to alert you to a seller who, in my opinion, along with many others, is offering a product in an unethical manner on your website. The seller “lowestbidder2004” offers a variety of ink stamps and application instructions in what amount to counterfeiting kits for marking reproduction items as originals. The stamps he sells duplicate many original WWII era manufacturer and government markings found on vintage WWII military cloth web gear, such as backpacks, pouches, and uniforms. This may seem minor on the surface, but the seller is promoting their product on your website, telling buyers they can achieve “different vintage” and “faded looks” that can help to pass reproduction items off as originals.

 

I belong to various collector organizations and other groups who see the items sold by this seller, and the manner in which he is promoting them as a serious threat to our hobby, as these kits are used to mark reproduction items, intended to deceive collectors. An example of a particularly deceptive practice associated with counterfeit stamping kits like the ones offered by “lowestbidder2004” can be seen with some of the original Lend-Lease Thompson magazine pouches that were found in Russia. These original pouches were unmarked during WWII, based on Lend-Lease requirements, but with the ink stamps, a $50 original pouch can be remarked to duplicate the marking of a more desirable manufacturer, or can even be marked with a “USMC” marking that would make the same pouch potentially worth $200. (See Ebay item # 160391701711) This has the effect of decreasing the value of originals, and otherwise confusing and making collectors less confident to bid in your community and others.

 

I hope you will take a look at the items that “lowestbidder2004” offers, and consider my note. While I believe the rubber stamps he offers are legal, their intended use can only be seen as deceptive, in my opinion, and their marketing on Ebay reduces the confidence of collectors who use your site and others to shop for original items to enhance their collections. I appreciate your time in consideration of this matter.

 

Example item numbers of concern: 160391701711, 160391506902, 160391022163, 160391050848, 160390668524

 

Respectfully,

 

David Albert

“dralbert98” on Ebay

Ebay member since October 24, 1998

________________________________________________________________________________

_______________________________________

 

I don't know if this will do any good, but at least I have tried. I would encourage others who feel similarly about the products this seller offers on Ebay to also write them, expressing your concerns.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

NRA Life Member
Past President, The American Thompson Association
American Society of Arms Collectors
Ohio Gun Collectors Association
Carbine Club
Garand Collectors Association

International Ammunition Association
Contributing Writer, Small Arms Review Magazine
Co-Author, "Thompson Manuals, Catalogs, & Other Paper Items" Collector Guide
One of the "Other Authors" of "The Ultimate Thompson Book," by Tracie L. Hill
Eagle Scout, and Member of NESA

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David,

 

I think the letter is great and will have to craft one of my own as I really have heartburn over this topic. It's bad enough to offer the stamps but to also explain ways to further fake the stampings by using lighter stamping or less ink is specifically aimed at producing a fake. An original piece should have a fairly clear stamp that would be legible when shipped out for acceptance.

 

Thanks for the input and welcome to the boards.

 

- Ron Brock

 

Edit:

P.S. I like the idea of including specific examples of other items on their site and let us know what (if) they respond. They are certainly quick to zap an auction if they feel it's offensive based on their terms I wonder how they will react to this.

My vices: The American Civil War and earlier US militaria and the Thompson submachine gun...yes, I know that sounds odd.

President, The American Thompson Association

Thompson Collectors Association

Ohio Gun Collectors Association
Michigan Antique Arms Collectors
Sons of the American Legion

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Just a thought...

the guy clearly has a lot of these stamps, and a source for producing more.

 

He sells them on eBay, at least you and keep an eye on how many are sold and possibly even to whom. IF (they probably won't) they kick him off eBay, then he sells these a few at a time to people at shows, etc, they get around, and eventually just as much damage is done, only not too many people know about it. It sure as heck isn't going to stop him from selling them.

 

There was a guy who used to sell Waffenamt stamps for clothing and guns and such, along with numbering stamps. I guess he got "outed" when he started advertising in the shotgun news, but for years and years before that, he would sell them in small batches at shows and stuff. That's around the time you started seeing SS runes on k98 rifles and stuff. Same with the carbine stock markings and whatnot the other forum member mentioned above.

 

Just saying, might not be ideal but at least if he's on eBay, it's pretty visible, like easy-green. Then again, what you really need to watch out for is the people who buy the stamps and mark stuff up moreso than the guy selling the stamps, it'd still be easier to cross-check.

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This is the kind of thing that kills a hobby.

 

I don't know how many of you out there collect TR stuff...I never have, but when I first got into collection, the German collectors vastly outnumbered the US guys. Now that story has changed, and it seems whenever I get my hands on anything German, it's either fake, or even if it is real, nobody wants it because the real stuff is too hard to sell. Too much fake stuff out there to be certain, and too many GOOD fakes. There's definitely still a market for it, but a lot more apprehension on the part of the collectors to spend their money on something that might not be legit, despite all apperances. Same with this stuff -- used to be, if you looked at a stamp and it was worn a bit or at looked like it was factory original, the piece was good. Now, what's to say you don't take a repro belt, slap on some fake stamps have some clown "reenact" in it for a few trips to the field, leave it sit for a while, and there you go...WWII original and it'd be pretty tough to tell the difference.

 

This probably won't kill the market, but it sure won't help things.

 

I also quit collecting TR items because of the fakes.I now only sell TR if it comes straight from the vet and he has proof.I really think US Militaria is much more fun and exciting than TR ever was.But dang this is going to throw a wrench in it for sure.Why cant people just leave well enough alone.

 

Shaun

Facebook Militaria Trading Post https://www.facebook.com/groups/466700773358049/

Looking for WW-2,

88th Inf Div,

99th/394th inf,

1st Cav Groupings/Items

Also Looking For Headgear ALL Countrys.

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