Pre 1941 Left Facing USN Officer's Hat Devices

[Dave]

That's a really nice hat device and someone got a great deal on it! I would have snapped that up in an instant!

 

 

[Dave]

I combined the threads together, so these are all in one spot.

[topdcnut]

Here is one I found a while back.

[cbuehler]

Some very nice examples posted here. Many of these have been a bit of a mystery to me as the norm for officer cap devices was embroidered before ww2. I myself have never seen a cap with one of the large left facing metal devices on it.

Some of them are exact mirror images of known ww2 right facing examples, leading me to think that most of these left facing metal devices date from just prior to the war, circa 1940 or so, and when the change came, the maker just had the same eagle dies reversed.

Many reservists etc. were called to active duty around that time and the rapidly expanding numbers of men perhaps put a strain on the production of embroidered devices; metal ones also offered a cheaper option for many.

I cant help but think that some of the small devices shown here may have been some type of sweetheart badge?

At any rate, these left facing metal devices are quite uncommon.

 

CB

[Kaigun Shosa]

 

Realistically, if I could find one for around $50, even knowing it's a fake, I'd still like one for my hat (the one I actually wear in uniform). I seriously considered bidding on this one, actually!

 

Dave

 

Dave,

I was able to purchase one of these several years ago and did put it on my combination cover. I wore it on several uniform inspections and nobody noticed or mentioned it. but still, it was nice to have and wear.

 

Jim

[Flightpath]

Hi,

 

I have been looking for a pre-1941 USN cap badge for a long time and finally found one on 'The Colonel's Cache' new additions page. While searching I learned that there sure are a lot variations of pre and post 1941 bullion cap badges!

 

Now I my life can move on

 

cheers, John

[MastersMate]

It is interesting that the anchor in post # 51, is the style of the Coast Guard Warrant Officer (W-1) cap insignia. Replace the USN eagle and shield with just the CG shield and crossed foul anchors are looking like the style illustrated since 1952 for the CG style.. The USN anchor has been a different styled design...

[Flightpath]

Hi,

 

I noticed that this photo (Frank William Crilley MoH award, 1928) shows the full sized metal (non-bullion) officer's hat device being used even before 1930.......

[Flightpath]

Any comments on the above photo........ they look like metal, what do you think?

[MastersMate]

No doubt they are metal insignia.. What would make a good clue is if it is possible to determine the dimensions of the shield and the length of the anchors. Current USN dimensions are 2 1/4 " for the anchors and 15/16" for the shield..

 

In 1916 the CG called for the warrant officer cap device to be of guilders metal. 2 crossed anchors 1 1/2" long crossed on their centers and a 3/4" tall silver shield at the crossing. It was fastened to the cap with a center screw pin. Pretty much describes the USN device, without the eagle attached to the shield.

 

The spec remained the same up until 1940 when a device, either embroidered or metal was authorized. If the dimensions are close to those on the photo, then it would appear there would be a market available to produce both the USN officer and USCG metal cap device..

 

By 1951 the CG WO anchors increased to 1 7/8" and by 1973 they were 2 1/4" in length.

[MastersMate]

A photo from the 1922 USN Uniform Regs may be of some importance..

 

 

[MastersMate]

Change 7 , March 1931 altered article 297 of the 1922 USN uniform regs that described the officer cap device. The 1922 regs called for the embroidered design, no idea what change 7 altered..

[MastersMate]

Another photo that shows the collar size USNR insignia, and what looks like a cap full sized metal insignia. The wing detail looks like cap device worn by the CWO and the brass hat with the Navy CPO.

[MastersMate]

From a 1917 pamphlet from Baily, Banks and Biddle illustrating their cap devices.. What do you think, actual photographs or very detailed illustrations ??

 

 

[Dave]

From a 1917 pamphlet from Baily, Banks and Biddle illustrating their cap devices.. What do you think, actual photographs or very detailed illustrations ??

 

 

 

They appear to be highly retouched photos. Pretty cool images, still. I'd love to find a metal BB&B officer's hat device!

[Joe Visor]

Just wondering what other information/facts/proof there is to the statement that the eagle in post #12 is a reproduction. Just like to know, the statement that a unknown dealer from 15 years go said so isnt the best confirmation of authenticity.

[Dave]

Just wondering what other information/facts/proof there is to the statement that the eagle in post #12 is a reproduction. Just like to know, the statement that a unknown dealer from 15 years go said so isnt the best confirmation of authenticity.

 

Joe:

 

Check out post #39, where I comment that I probably have egg on my face. I have yet to confirm the reproduction claim that I was told back in the mid (or was it early?) 90s. However, I've seen at least eight or nine Viking ones now that are all identical and are just fine. I've yet to see any of the purported "fake" ones, and I've been looking...

 

Dave

[Dave]

And in fact, this is a Viking I bought just this last week. I'm 100% confident that it's legitimate (not because I own it, but because it matches the others I've had the chance to handle, to include the one still with the veteran's family).

[Joe Visor]

Dave,

Yes I did go back and re-read the whole thread! Was a bit confusing. I own one (Pretty much identical to all the ones photographed in the thread) and have no questions about it, but I have been fooled before.

Would be great to find date on when the HH eagle and Viking markings started being applied.

Ian Watts also has one with some great research on his web page

ianewatts.org

[chief4af]

A few of my left facing Eagles.

[Flightpath]

They are really nice chief!👍

[Flightpath]

Just for reference, hear are two that were sold by Flying Tiger antiques some time back, the first has no makes mark, the second is by J. R. Gaunt in London.....

 

[Flightpath]

This nice 1-1/4" x 1-3/16" eagle came in the post today, it has an interesting story.... for later.👍

[chief4af]

Here is another left facing Officer's Navy dress hat badge.

[Dave]

This thread has been around for while and I've been able to accumulate a reasonable collection of right facing eagles. :)  This is all that I collect anymore. 

 

What I recently found is a confirmed reproduction. Well, I don't have a letter from the maker or anything like that, but it appears to be relatively new and that's what I'm basing this off of. I am even more convinced now that I was wrong thinking the Viking/Gemsco pattern was a reproduction.