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BAR Parts & Accessories


craig_pickrall
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  • 7 months later...

Not ALL of the items shown would fit inside the box. Some were carried elsewhere -- in pockets, in packs.

 

Might anyone have a similar shot showing the set up for use with a Thompson?

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craig_pickrall
Also used/issued with Thompson SMG. later replaced with a small cloth "pokey" bag with drawstring.

 

I found this info in the fifth book / manual on the Thompson that I looked at. I did stop the search after finding this. I found one book that showed a photo of the M1918 leather box but there was no spare parts layout like what was done for the BAR. Maybe the earlier manuals for the Thompson showed a layout but those are before my area of interest. I thought DEC, 1941 was a pretty good date for a TSMG manual.

 

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IMHO the M1918 leather box mentioned in the thompson manual can be only the one of the BAR cause obviously it cannot be a box dedicate for the tommygun otherwise it would have named as M1927. Even dimensions are the same.

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craig_pickrall

Yes that is correct. It is the M1918 leather accessory box and it was issued with both the BAR and the TSMG. I found a pic of it in one TSMG book but that was all, no parts layout or contents list. The mention in the TSMG manual was the only details I could find.

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This is my WWI M1918 leather BAR case. During my ebay watching I've spotted also cases marked G&K 1918. The page of the original 1918 manual indicates the content of this case. I think to find today WWI inner fabric pouches would be a mission impossible.

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We found one of these in a local woods where the 79th ID were stationed prior to D Day. For something that's been in the ground for 60 + years, it was in remarkable condition. The only contents were a magazine loader and a combination reamer tool.

 

May try and get some photo's of it if possible.

 

Thanks,

 

Jon

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  • 1 year later...

Thanks for bumping this topic, lots of useful info here.

 

My grandfather gave my brother a leather box full of foreign currency and until recently, I didn't realize that box was the one shown above. Unfortunately the box and it's contents are now gone but I'm hoping to replace the box and that memory.

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  • 1 month later...
Canvas pouch marking; Boyt over 42

 

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Was just rereading this post and realized I have two of these pouches. Moving then over to my BAR equipment. Thanks Robert

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Was just rereading this post and realized I have two of these pouches. Moving then over to my BAR equipment. Thanks Robert

 

 

Those pouches show up in the SNL for several weapons as an accessory pouch.A quick look shows them listed for the M1 Rifle for one as well as the BAR and the Browning MGs.

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Those pouches show up in the SNL for several weapons as an accessory pouch.A quick look shows them listed for the M1 Rifle for one as well as the BAR and the Browning MGs.

 

They were also an accessory pouch for the Thompson.

 

David Albert

[email protected]

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  • 1 month later...

Does anybody have a list of the tools which would have been included in the M12 Tool Roll, for a BAR? Understand there may be some overlap with other weapons, but I'm really looking for the BAR-specific tools. I don't see anything specific in Ballou's book.

 

Thanks,

Steve

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  • 3 years later...

Thankyou DutyFirst.....may i just confirm that the M12 tool roll is for the BAR...i am the proud new owner of a 6/44 barrel dated New England Small Arms BAR and now again want to start collecting all the parts and accesories again.....i sold mine 5 years ago and regretted it ever since....now a "new" one has come home to daddy...:-)

 

Any help welcomed.

 

Regards

 

Lloyd

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  • 3 months later...

Maybe a little late to the party here, but can anyone here recommend some sources where I can find early BAR components (WW1 M1918)? I tried BMG and am familiar with Winchester way and gun broker. Wondering if there is somewhere else you might recommend?

Thanks

Matt

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  • 5 years later...
749th tank battalion

In my 1918 manual is listed the content of the leather box.

 

artu44,

Do you know of any PDF version of that 1918 manual that might be available online ?

what is the exact title i might google ?

I have a pdf version of a Sept. 1918 technical training handbook for the M1918 but it does not include photo plates like your picture shows.

 

In regards to the count of 42 BAR magazines, is there any reference in the manual to how that number was totaled up among the BAR team's belts and bandoleers ? or was the 42 mags supposed to be a rear area ordnance / quartermaster resupply ?

I get 42 if you include 6 for the gunner's belt (1 pocket containing the leather parts box)

6 for the loader's belt (if he's using a butt cup belt...and also 1 pocket has a leather box)

6 for the 2nd assistant's belt (again with 1 pocket being filled with something other than 2 mags)

24 mags divided among 4 bandoleers (2 left, 2 right) for the loader and 2nd asst.

 

I have seen references to the total load for a BAR team in WWI being 48 mags which wouldn't account for the gunner having a leather parts box in a mag pocket.... or 44 mags which means 2 of the 3 team members each have a pocket dedicated to something other than 2 mags.

 

it all kinda gets confusing with all the various online or print material.

 

Regards,

Andrew

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749th tank battalion

I found the below copy and pasted article (segments copied) from NRA/American Rifleman online. It adds to the confusion of how many magazines each of the team members were "prescribed" to carry on their belts. It does not describe the particular belts beyond calling the gunner's belt a "wide" belt with a metal boot. it originally mentions 960 rounds amongst 48 magazines, then later in describing the transport of the weapon the magazine total adds up to 44. (gunner loses 2 mags for the spare parts kit....and 2nd assistant somehow loses 2 mags, but for what ? another spare parts kit ? an oil can ? ........

 

A recently uncovered U.S. Army document, dated Sept. 17, 1918, and originating from the “Automatic Arms Section” of the AEF’s Engineering Division, sheds some light on how the Browning Machine Rifle was viewed at the time of the great Allied offensive that would bring the Great War to an end. —James L. Ballou

 

The gun team for this rifle is composed of three men, namely, a gunner, loader and carrier. Nine hundred and sixty (960) rounds loaded in 48 magazines is carried by this team. The belt equipment is so arranged that it does not interfere with the carrying of the standard pack equipment, and is so compact that even with the 400 rounds the loader and carrier carry, they can double time or go into action the same as infantry.

 

Transportation:
The gun is carried by means of a sling similar to that of the service rifle. The gunner carries the gun, spare parts kit and six magazines. A wide belt is provided for the carrying of the kit and magazines, to which is also attached a metal boot into which the stock of the gun fits and facilitates firing from the hip in marching fire. An assistant carries 20 magazines in a belt provided for that purpose and a second assistant carries 18 magazines.

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749th tank battalion

courtesy of battleorder.org .....WWII ammo / magazine loads

 

The base of fire for both the U.S. Army and Marine Corps rifle squads was the M1918A2 BAR, although the Army officially fielded 1 per squad (2 unofficially depending on unit standard operation procedures) while the Marines fielded 3 per squad by 1944.

In the Army, the BAR gunner typically carried 10 magazines in an M1937 cartridge belt and 1 magazine in the gun. Each cartridge belt had 6 pockets that could each carry 2 magazines, although one would be used to carry a leather tool pouch. The assistant gunner and ammo bearer were also issued an M1937 cartridge belt and could each carry 12 magazines (a total of 35 magazines of 700 rounds). However, mags were likely distributed amongst the riflemen as well as a fully loaded BAR magazine belt weighed 20.2 lb. Generally speaking, until late 1944, the assistant gunner and ammo bearer would have carried the BAR magazines in the M1937 cartridge belt and their rifle ammunition (and other gear) in 2 M1 general purpose carrying bags. After Operation Overlord in mid-1944, the M1937 cartridge belts for the assistant and ammo bearer were deleted. They would then be issued M1923 cartridge belts for their rifle ammo and carry the BAR ammo in their general purpose bags.

 

In the Marine Corps, rifle squads were divided into 3 fire teams of 4 men each from 1944 onwards. Each fire team had an automatic rifleman and assistant automatic rifleman. The automatic rifleman carried 9 magazines, with 8 in the cartridge belt and 1 in the gun. Each assistant could carry up to 12 magazines, but 4 could be distributed to the fire team leader and rifleman (2 each) if needed. This brought the squad's BAR magazine count to 63, or 1,260 rounds compared to the Army's 700 rounds.

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  • 2 years later...

Cool picture. I believe I have the tests reports from the gentleman firing the test weapon at WRA.  Unfortunately, I’m not home or I would post some of his papers, draft pubs, test reports, malfunctions, etc. cool stuff. 

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  • 1 month later...

I believe the picture above is SGT Pierce while he was stationed at Winchester.  I believe he must have been the main NCO working on the BAR because his notes are exhaustive and I believe his hand written notes in many cases were turned into the TR's and Description manuals that followed (TM's FMs didnt exit then).  There are weapons test reports as well as ammunition test repIMG_8859.JPG.fcd50d91297fcbeb40d02371428fd4ae.JPGIMG_8858.JPG.9b96c260a0d8b5f60fa5cfb75c50c86a.JPGIMG_8854.JPG.2de8fa7436b050096a958b503ff111d1.JPGIMG_8853.JPG.ed77a751faffc9d545226de358088a0c.JPGIMG_8852.JPG.80bbb6c15ccdfa0ad79dc31436f97739.JPGIMG_8860.JPG.7b52ede9959754cae0a01d1d56b9e240.JPGorts in the documentation.  I'll post a few of the 8 inch thick worth of documents so you can see what some of it is includes.  

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