Guy Posted December 13, 2009 Share #1 Posted December 13, 2009 Dear friends, I've just received this pouch bought from eBay. It's brand new and I'm a bit suspicious about its genuinity. It'is in mint condition but if compared with other WW2 pouches in my collection, both Boyt and other brands, it shows something different. Fabric is the correct colour (and smell) but a bit coarse and the thread used for sewings is of a deeper green than the colour of the pouch itself. Snaps are shining like new. I think that even if perfectly stored they should show a little patina from dirt and age. The female is impressed with an upside-down arrow I've never seen before (similar to WW2 british Broad Arrow) instead of the common punched point or usual brand markings of WW2 US snaps. I'm sharing my experience because the seller has listed several identical pouches like this one (she states they're original WW2 from her dad's collection) there are others (too many) with same features listed lately on eBay . I won it by a low bid but somebody could spend lots of money for something that leaves me still in doubt. Everybody is warned and free to do what he wants. Have a good Sunday. Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayonetman Posted December 13, 2009 Share #2 Posted December 13, 2009 To me, this looks like a British made pouch - nothing like the Boyt versions I have had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Posted December 13, 2009 Author Share #3 Posted December 13, 2009 Yes it looks like a British Made but these latter are still different. They don't show the additional thread for carbine/pistol magazine. I own one of these, if I'm able to find it in all my stuff I'll post a pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted December 13, 2009 Share #4 Posted December 13, 2009 It certainly looks like British webbing which has a much coarser appearance than the usual American cotton duck. It's possible that the ink-stamped marks are spurious? Sabrejet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armed 2 tha Teeth Posted December 13, 2009 Share #5 Posted December 13, 2009 Stop worrying it's original. Boyt made two patterns of USMC carbine pouches during the war. The pattern you have was actually first produced in 1944, in the same contract as bayonetman's. http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...?showtopic=2082 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Posted December 13, 2009 Author Share #6 Posted December 13, 2009 I'm new to this forum and I'm still unable to post Hi-Def pictures but as soon as I'll be able to post them I think everybody will agree with me about my purchase and will think double before spending money in such "well done" items. Here following you find the "British Made" stuff. They all are ink marked "BRITISH MADE" plus a British Government Broad Arrow followed by an inspector number and Manufacture (I think only M.E.C° or M.W.&S. Ltd.) plus Year. Snaps are "LIFT THE DOT" As for what I know there is no bivalent or convertible pistol/carbine pouch British Made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Posted December 13, 2009 Author Share #7 Posted December 13, 2009 Still "British Made" stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armed 2 tha Teeth Posted December 13, 2009 Share #8 Posted December 13, 2009 I'm new to this forum and I'm still unable to post Hi-Def pictures but as soon as I'll be able to post them I think everybody will agree with me about my purchase and will think double before spending money in such "well done" items. Guy, The pouch you bought is not a fake or reproduction. You probably got a good deal on it because it is dated '45, the '44 made (or '43 Froelich) pouches usually cost more. I have three brand new '45 dated pouches they are identical in weave, color, and smell to the Boyt '44 pouch I also have. The differences in stitching are shown in the other post I linked. Just because it doesn't have any patina or staining doesn't mean it is a fake. If you are upset because it is too mint I am sure someone on here will buy it from you. No reproductions of the "pointed flap" USMC carbine pouches have been made- EVER. Here are my Boyt 45 originals Boyt '44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Posted December 13, 2009 Author Share #9 Posted December 13, 2009 O.K. but what can you say about that upside down arrow on the snap? I've never run accross a similar one on any of US pouches I own or I have ever seen. Do you know something about it? Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armed 2 tha Teeth Posted December 13, 2009 Share #10 Posted December 13, 2009 It is probably a just a hallmark for a different U.S. producer of fasteners. I do not know the name of the manufacturer though. Not every fastener is marked Lift-the-Dot, especially USMC Carbine pouches. Here are the fastener markings on my USMC carbine pouches S.F. Co. 1943 2-S inside a triangle 1-Star Pull Boyt '44 Rounded Flap 5-Klikit Pull 2-Unmarked, just a dimple at the 6 o'clock position 1-Arrow Pointed Flap 2-Unmarked, just a dimple at the 6 o'clock position Boyt '45 3-Arrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig_pickrall Posted December 13, 2009 Share #11 Posted December 13, 2009 Look at post # 8 to see your USMC pouch. http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...?showtopic=2082 Look at post # 36 to see your arrow marked fastener. http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...241&hl=lift the dot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidhorn Posted December 14, 2009 Share #12 Posted December 14, 2009 Guy, No doubt about your carbine pouches. I've had a couple of these for many years, probably before any of the U.S. stuff was being reproduced. I've never thought they were anything other than the real deal. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Posted December 14, 2009 Author Share #13 Posted December 14, 2009 Dear friends, I can help thanking everybody who joined our discussion. Starting from a doubt of mine we have gone through a nice and very interesting history lesson about carbine poches. It's true, we never stop learning. I'm happy for my purchase now I'm sure it's a genuine pouch! My seller has already gained a new excellent feedback. Thank you again to everybody, Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artu44 Posted December 15, 2009 Share #14 Posted December 15, 2009 O.K.but what can you say about that upside down arrow on the snap? I've never run accross a similar one on any of US pouches I own or I have ever seen. Do you know something about it? Guy That's only the manufacturer's logo easily found on late WWII stuff but none knows his name. Compare with those on late war compass pouch.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
37thguy Posted May 31, 2015 Share #15 Posted May 31, 2015 NOM = Navy or Marine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B229 Posted May 31, 2015 Share #16 Posted May 31, 2015 NOM = Navy or Marine Not quite. N(avy) representing the department initiating the contract, O(ffice of) M(arine Corps) representing the bureau within the department overseeing the contract. And here's a great run-down on the whole thing: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/1590-us-navy-contracts/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustin Posted June 1, 2015 Share #17 Posted June 1, 2015 That's not correct either. N = The branch of service in which the contract was awarded signifying the US Navy- The "O" is not an abbreviation but rather a symbol meaning Limited or Limitation. This has to do with the funds allocated for the contract and does not mean "Office of" The last letter represents the initiating bureau within the US Navy. Any contract with a prefix of NOM or NOA etcetera tells you the contract was initiated, negotiated and awarded through that bureau utilizing their funds hence why they are limited as they are not connected to the larger pool of monies. If the prefix "N" is followed by an "X" or "XS" this tells you the contract was negotiated and awarded through the Bureau of Supplies and Accounts for the bureau signified by the last letter and interestingly enough I have never seen a prefix NXSM. All Marine equipment seems to have only NOM prefixes. All bureaus have an allowance sort of speak and they do not have the luxury to re-negotiate or extend contracts on demand like that of the BuS&A. NXS contracts allow regional purchasing offices to draw of it and extend orders for example the contract was for 10,000 Gidgets, a purchasing office could extend the contract for an additional 3,000 on a revolving fund. NO prefix contracts the price is fixed and if the order was for 10,000 Gidgets that's what will be delivered no more no less. However through appropriate channels an NO contract could be extended and it is my opinion or theory is why we see contracts Example: NOA-1245A....the A signifies an extension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B229 Posted June 1, 2015 Share #18 Posted June 1, 2015 That's not correct either. N = The branch of service in which the contract was awarded signifying the US Navy- The "O" is not an abbreviation but rather a symbol meaning Limited or Limitation. This has to do with the funds allocated for the contract and does not mean "Office of" The last letter represents the initiating bureau within the US Navy. Great to know Dustin, thanks! That was an old interpretation of it that I got from research maybe 20 years ago? Anyhow, great work on sorting all of this out for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldabewla Posted June 1, 2015 Share #19 Posted June 1, 2015 Thanks for the great information Dustin & BB229 here is my rare first pattern OD #7 shade Boyt '44 NOM.-43055 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustin Posted June 1, 2015 Share #20 Posted June 1, 2015 You are quite welcome, funny how something so miniscule can be so complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etienne Posted June 2, 2015 Share #21 Posted June 2, 2015 That's not correct either. N = The branch of service in which the contract was awarded signifying the US Navy- The "O" is not an abbreviation but rather a symbol meaning Limited or Limitation. This has to do with the funds allocated for the contract and does not mean "Office of" The last letter represents the initiating bureau within the US Navy. Any contract with a prefix of NOM or NOA etcetera tells you the contract was initiated, negotiated and awarded through that bureau utilizing their funds hence why they are limited as they are not connected to the larger pool of monies. If the prefix "N" is followed by an "X" or "XS" this tells you the contract was negotiated and awarded through the Bureau of Supplies and Accounts for the bureau signified by the last letter and interestingly enough I have never seen a prefix NXSM. All Marine equipment seems to have only NOM prefixes. All bureaus have an allowance sort of speak and they do not have the luxury to re-negotiate or extend contracts on demand like that of the BuS&A. NXS contracts allow regional purchasing offices to draw of it and extend orders for example the contract was for 10,000 Gidgets, a purchasing office could extend the contract for an additional 3,000 on a revolving fund. NO prefix contracts the price is fixed and if the order was for 10,000 Gidgets that's what will be delivered no more no less. However through appropriate channels an NO contract could be extended and it is my opinion or theory is why we see contracts Example: NOA-1245A....the A signifies an extension. Sounds very interesting ... thanks for those informations !! E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tda003 Posted May 9, 2016 Share #22 Posted May 9, 2016 Just making sure I have it correct. Boyt made 3 different iterations of the USMC M1 ammo pouch. Type 1 '44 w/o USMC, type 2 '44 w/ "USMC" and '45 w/ USMC. Foehlich made 2 iterations, all marked S.F. CO. Inc. one '43 and 1 '44. All had the stitching tacked in the front allowing either the M1 carbine mag or the 1911 mag. Correct? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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