Tonkin Gulf Fighter Pilot

[CROC]

A view of the black leather USN safety boots

 

 

Best

Croc

[sigsaye]

A view of the black leather USN safety boots

 

 

Best

Croc

Thanks CROC, those are the boots I remember. Any one who could get their hands on them wore them. I wore those for my last two years before I retired, as a Senior chief Signalman serving aboard an LPD.

 

Steve Hesson

[marineamtracer]

Croc thanks a hundred times over for posting that picture!

Colin

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi,

 

Nice jacket, you can see VF 162 members during 1967 cruise, Lt Punches is on bottom row

 

 

Steve, black flight boots (MIL-B-21408 Boots Safety ) were introduced by 1970 cruises, but I don't know the exact date of this Mil Spé, you can see 'em on the following 1970 cruise photo aboard USS Kitty Hawk

[CROC]

Hi Colin,

 

do you know the other squadron he was deployed ? I didn't found him in the 1966 VF 162 cruise book, may be I can locate some other pictures ?

 

Best

Croc

[marineamtracer]

Well Croc,

I wish I could give you an absolute answer on that but the best I know right now is that he flew with 162 from Oriskany in 67 and then he flew combat in Nam again off of the Ranger in 72. I am still waiting to get the copies of his records. Either he was with VF-113, VF-21, or VF-154. I have looked at the 72-72 Westpac Ranger cruise book online but it doesn't seem to list airwing members by name. Any help you could give me would be great!

Thanks croc,

Colin

[CROC]

Hi

 

I enclose you an other typical F8 pilot, from 1966, just before the new equipment of my previous post, with PR modified fatigue, Z3 gsuit, modified SV1, MK3C Life preserver, modified MA2 Torso harness, APH6B Helmet, B3A gloves.

 

 

Best

Croc

[Bebel]

Many impressive and detailed pilots as always! :thumbsup:

Thank you Yves.

 

I will show an end of 50's era A-4 pilot when I will have dressed my puppet!

 

Franck

[kammo-man]

Great stuff .

It is plain to see you put alot of hard work into this .

Any chance of posting articles you had done for Militaria magazine ?

Thanks

owen

[superheat]

Hello Croc,

 

Hello Croc,

 

It is good to find you again, and I see that you are still researching Navy flight gear used during the Vietnam War, which I continue to do so as well.

We were in regular contact last during 2008, until I moved to a different job in Texas (going back to my old lab, where we conduct forensic analysis of flight gear artifacts that are recovered from loss sites in South East Asia, involving US MIA personnel from the Vietnam War.

 

My new email is '[email protected], if you want to contact me, and discuss flight gear.

 

I will offer some good info about the Navy's black-colored Safety Boots used during VN.

 

This Military Specification is dated in June 1970, and the overall boot color was changed from Brown to Black. However, the overall boot design did not change, so this 1970 version boot is identical in design to it predecessors, aside from its black overall color (black leather uppers and outsoles).

 

Your Navy black boot picture appears to be a later (post-Vietnam) version black boot, which was different in using a modified chevron outsole, and smaller eyelets.

 

I include a photo of my late war vintage black Navy Safety Boots, which are dated October 1972, and thus, fall under the above June 1970 Mil Spec. My 1972 boots use the correct wartime rubber 'traction tread' outsole, which was the outsole type used after the earlier crepe' rubber outsole, and the Vibram type mountain rubber outsole.

 

Hope this info helps, and hope to hear from you soon.

 

Blue Skies,

 

Alex Villalva

[CROC]

Hi,

 

thanks Alex for this update, informations about USN flight boots are difficult to locate.

 

Owen, unfortunatly Militaria articles are copyrighted and I'm not allowed to post 'em, it seems that 1960s USN aviation collectors are very few, may be because documents about are difficult to locate ?

 

Best

Croc

[kammo-man]

C

Thas a shame as I know there are guys on this forum who have NEVER heard for this ground breaking French magazine .

owen

[Bebel]

Hi all

Than you very much for these very interesting informations about USN black boots.

Collecting 50's USN and USAF flight gears I would like to know when the brown flight boots were issued. Also the orange flight suit (Mil Spec 5390-E). I think from 1960 but I have no sure information.

I will mount my end of 50's USN pilot gears on my puppet and post some pics on the forum asap.

 

Cheers

Franck

[CROC]

Hi Frank,

 

Brown flight boots officially called High Top flight safety boots, initially available only with high altitude pressure suit were released for issue to all flight personnel on july 1st 1962. The price was 10.5$ per pair.

During evaluation at NATC Patuxent River they appeared to be superior to the N1 field shoes it replaces.

The side zipper of the Arrowhead pressure suit boots has been eliminated in this model.

 

The 5390E flight suit was from 1959.

 

Best

Croc

[Bebel]

Hi Frank,

 

Brown flight boots officially called High Top flight safety boots, initially available only with high altitude pressure suit were released for issue to all flight personnel on july 1st 1962. The price was 10.5$ per pair.

During evaluation at NATC Patuxent River they appeared to be superior to the N1 field shoes it replaces.

The side zipper of the Arrowhead pressure suit boots has been eliminated in this model.

 

The 5390E flight suit was from 1959.

 

Best

Croc

 

Thank you very much for these informations, Yves.

[Maverickson]

Great displays, thank you. I have a question. When did Naval Aviators go to wearing black boots? When I went into the Navy in '72, I worked the flight deck of USS Kitty Hawk. No one was wearing brown boots. When did they shift?

 

Thanks again,

Steve hesson

 

 

They may not have been wearing brown boots on the USS Kitty Hawk in 1972 but in 1967 those naval aviators certainly were wearing brown boots. In fact at that particular time that style of boot were probably the boot of choise. Although not an expert, I am the son of a naval aviator that was aboard the USS Oriskany from 1966 through 1968 and recall my late Father wearing those same brown boots. This next photograph should clear up that fact.

 

 

In this image seen above my Father who is seen top right wearing his khakis, no hat with his left hand resting on his thigh. Although not completely clear he is in fact wearing his brown leather flight boots. Those same boots were a topic of conversation at that time as expained by my Father, during one of his flights a spent round from small arms fire came up through his cockpit and lodged itself in the sole of one of those same boots. Unfortunately, he and I being the same size I wore those same brown boots out during the late 1970s through the 1980s.

 

Croc, you have an fine display & it seems to me that those same brown boots look very correct for that time. That same photograph as seen above can be found at this website http://raunchyredskins.us/Operations/11%20Jan%2068%20Pix.htm from what I understand to have been the 29th and final shoot down from that same Oriskany cruise.

 

Cheers, Dave

[CROC]

Hi Dave

 

Thanks for your update, I enclose you a view of these brown flight boots, this pair was worn by CAG 5 during 1969 cruise aboard BHR.

 

 

Best

Croc

[Maverickson]

Hi Dave

 

Thanks for your update, I enclose you a view of these brown flight boots, this pair was worn by CAG 5 during 1969 cruise aboard BHR.

 

 

Best

Croc

 

Hi Croc,

 

Yes, those look like the same style brown boots that my late Father once wore in combat while aboard the USS Oriskany flying over North Vietnam. Those would also be those same boots that later on I wore out and are long gone.

 

Cheers, Dave

[Maverickson]

Hi,

 

1967, has been a very important year for USN flight equipment with the delivery of the new SV2-MK6 survival sets and GS/FRP1 Nomex gloves to carrier units. MK6 Life preserver is the first horse collar LP that will be redesignated LPA1 in late 60s.

 

This VF 162 pilot is wearing a 1965 MIL-C-81126A Coverall Flying Men's High Temperature Resistant with Navy brown flight boots modified with vibram sole.

The G suit is a MK2A g suit MIL-C-23955

The helmet is an APH6A MIL-H-22995 with A13A oxygen mask MIL-M-6482B

 

Over the PR modified MA2 Torso harness MIL-S-19089A he wears the two new items the SV2 MIL-V-81523 (13 march 1967) and the MK 6 life preserver (august 1967)

 

The new GS/FRP1 gloves MIL-G-81188A were adopted in 9 january 67.

 

 

Hi Croc,

 

Also, as I recall those same Oriskany aviators wore camo. Those squadron members were not supplied this gear and simply went to a hunting supply store and acquired them through a private purchase.

 

Although I do not have a pic of my father wearing that gear I have seen those same camo pants and jackets worn in that O boat cruise book.

 

Cheers, Dave

[CROC]

Hi Croc,

 

Also, as I recall those same Oriskany aviators wore camo. Those squadron members were not supplied this gear and simply went to a hunting supply store and acquired them through a private purchase.

 

Although I do not have a pic of my father wearing that gear I have seen those same camo pants and jackets worn in that O boat cruise book.

 

Cheers, Dave

 

You are right Dave, aboard O Boat, two pieces duck hunter camies were worn during 1966 cruise in VF 111 and 1966 plus 1967 in VF 162.

 

In 1965, VF 111 used one piece tigerstripe flight suit, but the squadron was not aboard O boat.

 

What was your father squadron, I should have a photo of him somewhere ?

 

Best

Croc

[Maverickson]

You are right Dave, aboard O Boat, two pieces duck hunter camies were worn during 1966 cruise in VF 111 and 1966 plus 1967 in VF 162.

 

In 1965, VF 111 used one piece tigerstripe flight suit, but the squadron was not aboard O boat.

 

What was your father squadron, I should have a photo of him somewhere ?

 

Best

Croc

 

Hi Croc,

 

My Father LCDR E. E. " BUCK " Sheeley was the Air Operations Officer to the CAG. As staff for the most part he flew VA-164 A/C. A position he held for both the 1966 & 1967 Oriskany deployments. I have both group staff photos with him in the mix.

 

If you have a photo of him I would appreciate seeing it.

 

Cheers, Dave

[CROC]

Hi Croc,

 

My Father LCDR E. E. " BUCK " Sheeley was the Air Operations Officer to the CAG. As staff for the most part he flew VA-164 A/C. A position he held for both the 1966 & 1967 Oriskany deployments. I have both group staff photos with him in the mix.

 

If you have a photo of him I would appreciate seeing it.

 

Cheers, Dave

 

I have the two cruise books I'm copying the pages during the week end

 

Best

Croc

[CROC]

Dave

 

I found this CVW 16 Staff view in the O Boat 1967 cruise book, your father is on CAG Shepherd side, in the 1966 cruise book unfortunatly there is no CVW 16 Staff photo.

 

 

Best

[CROC]

Here is a typical winter 1965 A1 pilot with tiger coveralls, Z3 g suit, SV1 survivals, MKII Life preserver and APH6B Helmet

 

 

Best

Croc

[Maverickson]

Dave

 

I found this CVW 16 Staff view in the O Boat 1967 cruise book, your father is on CAG Shepherd side, in the 1966 cruise book unfortunatly there is no CVW 16 Staff photo.

 

 

Best

 

Hi Croc,

 

Yes, I have this same photo taken in 1967 from the deck of the Oriskany.

 

Even though the 1966 cruise book does not have the CVW-16 staff group photo & it may not have made the book but I have it.

 

Cheers, Dave

[CROC]

Hi,

 

 

I recently had the opportunity to acquire a group of items from one of the first USN Mig Killer of the Vietnam War : John C. Smith Jr.

J C Smith was born in 1936 and joined USN in 1955. In 1957 he earned his naval aviator wings and reported to VF 121. In 1959 he was selected to follow RIO course with USAF to become F4 NAO(Intercept) instructor. In 1960, he was back to VF 121 as RIO training officer. In may 1963, he sailed to WestPac aboard USS Midway for his first cruise with VF 21. During his second cruise, on 17 june 1965 with Cdr Lou Page he was credited of the first Mig 17 killed by USN during the war. (Lt Batson and Lcdr Doremus killed an other one). In may 1966, he was back to VF 121 as Tactics Officer and in december 1967, he spent one year in Monkey Mountain, Da Nang as 7th Fleet Liaison. In december 1968, with Dan Peterson the received the mission to create the first ACM course that would became Fighter Weapons School (Top Gun). On 1 october 1970 he was promoted Cdr and first CO of the Navy fighter Weapons School. In october 1972 he was back in WestPac with VF 114 and took command of the squadron in august 1973. He retired in august 1975.