WWII African American Reenactors

[capa]

Hello Everyone,

I am curious if/how many African American reenactors portraying WWII GIs are out there. The Civil War 54 Massachusetts group is pretty active here in Charleston, but I don't recall seeing anyone doing WWII. Give me a shout out if you or anyone you know is participating.

thanks,

Capa

[Sgt_Rock_EasyCo]

I have seen black guys in German units and Allied units.

 

Haven't seen an all black unit.

 

Rock

[capa]

Despite the fact that the US Army (and theoretically the US armed forces) during the War were segregated, it is interesting to me how many African American soldiers were assigned to "white" units. I have started looking closer at D-Day photos, for example, and it is interesting how many black guys (usually in singularly or in pairs) are in them. I wonder how they were treated by the other soldiers. Of course, there were still entire units made up of African American troops, but there was definetly a beginning of the end of a segregated military during the end of the war.

capa

[justinwjolly]

African American Soidiers were relegated to service and supply for the most part like the red ball express was mostly black drivers pushed to their limit, but by the end of the war there was the 92nd ID and that Tanker Batalion that served under Patton.

[tredhed2]

African American Soidiers were relegated to service and supply for the most part like the red ball express was mostly black drivers pushed to their limit, but by the end of the war there was the 92nd ID and that Tanker Batalion that served under Patton.

 

Here's a more detailed answer for the benefit of the newbies on the site.

 

The Army had two infantry divisions - 92nd, 93rd; one armored group (5th); three tank battalions (758th, 761st, 784th), some TD bns (614th 646th, 649th, 659th, 669th, 679th, 795th, 827th-829th, 846th) several FA bns, and a host of other units. Yes, for the most part, black units were labor units. Don't forget the Tuskeegee Airmen (332nd FG; 99th FS; 100th FS; 301st FS; 302nd FS) and 616th-619th BSs. The 92nd ID arrived in Italy in Oct 44 and rec'd credit for two campaigns; the 93rd was in the Pacific in 1944 and rec'd credit for three campaigns. It should be noted that both divs, for a number of reasons, were broken up prior to the end of combat.

 

There is at least one reenactors group - try searching for "5th Platoon" I think they are out of NJ.

[tredhed2]

Despite the fact that the US Army (and theoretically the US armed forces) during the War were segregated, it is interesting to me how many African American soldiers were assigned to "white" units. I have started looking closer at D-Day photos, for example, and it is interesting how many black guys (usually in singularly or in pairs) are in them. I wonder how they were treated by the other soldiers. Of course, there were still entire units made up of African American troops, but there was definetly a beginning of the end of a segregated military during the end of the war.

capa

 

I think perhaps the quality of the photos may be deceiving.

 

Yes, the entire US armed forces were segregated in WW II (so were Canada's) and this was strictly enforced. Maybe one or two black soldiers who could "pass" for white snuck in, but until the early 1945 experiment, segregation was the rule.

 

In a nutshell, following all the losses to the rifle companies at the Hurtgen Forest and the Bulge, the Army (in the ETO only) in early 1945 put out a call for black volunteers to be assigned to separate "5th Platoons" in each rifle company. If NCOs, the men all had to be downgraded to Pfc; only Pvts and Pfs were accepted. The Army was overwhelmed w/ volunteers; it turned out to be a very successful experiment, and it led indirectly to Pres. Truman's Executive Order 9981, abolishing segregation in the US Armed Forces.

[capa]

Great info Tredhed-thanks. I will try to scan the photos that I am referring to so you will see what I mean. I suspect that the black soldiers in the D-Day pics I mentioned were from support units and temporarily assigned to the white units. There is lots of discussion about the effect of Truman's executive order, but it is interesting to me that the US military lead the way in many respects for desegregation.

www.5thplatoon.org is their website-thanks I would have never found this. The have a cool flash intro.

Cheers,

Capa

[Stinger Gunner USMC]

Interesting topic!

I have a uniform ID'd to a black man from Lousiana. It carries insignia from the 9th Armored Division and has Armored Collar brass. His file was destroyed in the NARA fire so no help there. I wonder if he was in one of these "5th Platoons"

 

Also,

www.5thplatoon.org has a very complete list of black units in WWII

[USMCRECON]

Hello Everyone,

I am curious if/how many African American reenactors portraying WWII GIs are out there. The Civil War 54 Massachusetts group is pretty active here in Charleston, but I don't recall seeing anyone doing WWII. Give me a shout out if you or anyone you know is participating.

thanks,

Capa

 

Perhaps one might try reenacting an African American legend from before and during the Korean War....the difficult path to Naval Aviator walked by Jesse Brown.

 

For those who don't know, Jesse Leroy Brown was from Hattisburg MS and wanted to fly since he was a little kid. He overcame tremendous odds (and prejudice) to become the first African-American Naval Aviator. His Corsair was shot down on 4 December 1950 north of Yudam-ni. After Jesse crash landed, his wingman deliberately crash-landed his own Corsair as close as possible to Jesse in an attempt to free him from the wreckage.

 

The Marine helo pilot who arrived at the crash site shortly thereafter had to remove everything that was not "bolted down" in order to attain the altitude necessary to reach the crash site and lift out two men (he also left his crew chief behind at Hagaru-ri). Unfortunately, there was nothing available to cut the Corsair's fuselage beside a small axe. As hard as they tried, Jesse died of internal injuries and exposure to the cold, before they could unpin his legs from the buckled cockpit.

 

Jesse Brown was awarded a posthumous DFC, his wingman, LTJG Tom Hudner received the MoH, and the Marine helo pilot a SSM. I've been working his loss case since 2000 and I know his situation well. I've talked many times over the years with retired Capt Hudner, the other flight leader flying air cover, and the Marine helo pilot. The Marine helo pilot died a couple years ago. Capt Hudner and the other pilot are still alive. The attached picture shows Jesse in a VF-32 Corsair not long before his death.

 

[dogface44]

Picture taken in 1995 in France.

 

[hbtcoveralls]

Capa,

The photos you've seen from D-Day do show Black soldiers, but just not from the same unit as the white soldiers. There was an all black barrage balloon battalion which landed on D-Day (in fact this was the only unit to land on both Omaha and Utah beaches) and also there were port battalions who both loaded troops for D-day and worked on the beaches afterward. Just remember that all of the Infantry and Artillery and Armored units landing on D-Day were unfortunately all white.

I've re-enacted with several black re-enactors but there really should be more IMHO.

Tom Bowers

[tredhed2]

The Jan-Mar 2003 issue of The Trading Post published an article which indicated where most of the 5ht Plts were assigned. There were a couple of photos of black GIs who were in two of these plts, wearing SSI of "white" units. The issue is still avail.

 

Or, you could buy Special Studies: The Employment of Negro Troops, Lee, Ulysses and read Chapter XXII, Volunteer Infantry Replacements. The book is part of the Army geeenback series of WW II. You can still find it in paperback.

 

It should be noted that, in some units, when the white rifle companies losses became acute in March 45, they became truly integrated when the 5th Plts merged wtih them.

 

Stinger Gunner: sorry, I could not find documentation as to what unit your GI was assigned to; but, it would have been the 27th, 52nd or 60th AIBs. There were no black tank 5th Plts. All were infantry.

[J_Andrews]

From Jan 1945 in the ETO, there were between 15 and 20 all-black platoons organic to otherwise white Infantry units. In addition, there were at least two all-black COMPANIES, one in the 99th and one in 104th Inf Divs. Additionally, undreds of blacks were assigned to Inf Regt Service Companies in theri existing MOSs, such as truck driver, mechanic, cook and supplyman; IIRC nearly all these went to the same Divs the black platoons/companies went to.

 

In college, I had a black SFC instructor who had served in black TD and AAA AW units, made 2LT and then, in the Jan 45 program, assigned to a white Tank Battalion -- as a platoon leader for a platoon with only three black members. He got static only from one white guy -- an Italian from Massachusetts! They wound up having a rank-off fistfight to settle matters (a grudging standoff thereafter).

[D.A.T.]

They have some Events at a place called Uffheim, going on down on the Swiss-French border now and then. Saw this guy in there, I've seen some more reenacting "brothers" over here, (Forums), gotta dig though.

Here's one website, sorry, in French.

http://www.maginot68.com/pages/racine.php

 

Some more ww-2 info on Afro Americans in the U.S. Armed Forces.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5113924/

[audacia cum prudentia]

the rather insane Jonno Hayworth of the 2nd armored group has "press-ganged" several black guys off the street on trips, dressed them in GI gear and put them as truck driver's in GMCs !! A unique way to integrate !!

 

here are photos from his site

 

Visit My Website

 

Visit My Website

 

They all seem to have very much enjoyed the experience and one from the last trip in September 2009 plans to join the truck company, they have all played the part and I well remember the look of abject horror on 1st Sgt Saunders face when he first saw these "kidnapped" guys in the truck but it was priceless to see his face when ( by pre-arrangement ) Jonno said to the black guys when they pulled up in the truck :

 

" hey boy, why are my supplies five hours late ? "

 

and the English speaking black guy replied : " ahm sorry boss but we found ourselves some white tail in that last village !"

 

I think it would be great to see more black guys in authentic re-enacting roles paying proper tributes to the contribution of their fore-fathers

[D.A.T.]

Check out this website. http://www.5thplatoon.org/

[D.A.T.]

Check out this website. http://www.5thplatoon.org/

 

Going through thier website, I read about seven black GI's being awarded the MOH, something I never knew before.

http://www.5thplatoon.org/MOH.html

[capa]

the rather insane Jonno Hayworth of the 2nd armored group has "press-ganged" several black guys off the street on trips, dressed them in GI gear and put them as truck driver's in GMCs !! A unique way to integrate !!

 

here are photos from his site

 

Visit My Website

 

Visit My Website

 

They all seem to have very much enjoyed the experience and one from the last trip in September 2009 plans to join the truck company, they have all played the part and I well remember the look of abject horror on 1st Sgt Saunders face when he first saw these "kidnapped" guys in the truck but it was priceless to see his face when ( by pre-arrangement ) Jonno said to the black guys when they pulled up in the truck :

 

" hey boy, why are my supplies five hours late ? "

 

and the English speaking black guy replied : " ahm sorry boss but we found ourselves some white tail in that last village !"

 

I think it would be great to see more black guys in authentic re-enacting roles paying proper tributes to the contribution of their fore-fathers

 

 

 

 

That's an awesome photo and I like his chutzpa for recruiting the guys! Perhaps others in the reenacting community should be so bold...

[capa]

Going through thier website, I read about seven black GI's being awarded the MOH, something I never knew before.

http://www.5thplatoon.org/MOH.html

Hey D.A.T.---me neither. That's a shame more of us don't know about it.

[tredhed2]

In 1996, then President W. Clinton retroactively presented the MOH to the seven black GIs from WW II; only one was still alive (1 Lt. Vernon Baker, 92nd ID). Most of the others had been KIA in WW II. It was on the news (TV, newspapers, magazines) at the time. Apparently many of you were too young then. I believe that since then, the History Channel promoted a show on the subject. Various presidents have made ex post facto presentations of the MOH to other American servicemen (diff conflicts) around that time period. There was a belated MOH presentation to Hawaii Senator Daniel K. Inoye for his actions during WW II in the same decade. Studies and research modules indicated that AJAs were not equally treated when it came to awards for valor (NOT the PH).

 

There have been many books written on the subject of integration/segregation/integration of the U.S. armed forces since the Revolutionary War (too many to list here). Too many of those with an interest in the history of military institutions in the U.S. haven't made the grade when it comes to actually buying the resources available to expand knowledge, like unit histories, catalogs, non-fiction books, etc. The one book I will recommend is Ulysses Lee's The Employment of Negro Troops in WW II. It can be found in paperback; probably on a govenment printing office site.

 

There are also non-fiction books on the 92nd ID, the 2nd Ranger Infantry Co (Abn) in the Korean War that are available. The 92nd ID actually was integrated (in a way) in WW II.

[JimmCapp]

Lets not forget the black soldiers who fought in the Pacific theatre.

When Franklin D. Roosevelt signed Executive Order 8802 blacks were, for the first time, permitted to join the Marine Corps. Between 1942 and 1949, the camp at Montford Point in Jacksonville, North Carolina, was a recruit depot for black recruits, training 20,000 African-Americans during that period. In 1948 Executive Order 9981 ordered the military to integrate.

 

Marine defense battalions were seen as an ideal platform for integrating African Americans into units with white leaders, since they trained independently and fought in isolated areas. Those recruits slated for defense battalions were trained at the then-segregated Montford Point (now known as Camp Gilbert H. Johnson, part of the Marine Corps Base Camp Lejeune complex in North Carolina). They would then be assigned to the two black defense battalions, the 51st and 52nd.

 

 

From the MONTFORD POINT MARINE ASSOCIATION website:

 

The 51st Defense Battalion arrived at Saipan in the Mariana Islands to support the 2nd and 4th Marine Divisions of V Amphibious Corps. While they were assisting the combat units, one of their own, Private First Class Leroy Seals of Brooklyn, NY, was shot and died the next day of his wounds. The Montford Point Marines picked up their rifles that day and fought back the Japanese and even destroyed one of the Japanese machine guns from the beachhead perimeter side-by-side with the white combat units. In February 1945, a group from the 51st landed on Iwo Jima with the 5th Division, 28th Regiment. The combat regiment came ashore and it seemed that taking Iwo Jima would be a cake-walk. The Japanese, however, had planned an ambush. They (the Japanese) had placed guns on either side of Mount Suribachi and were firing at will onto the Marines on the island. The black Marines of the 8th Ammunition Company landed during the second or third wave and somehow they kept ammunition in the hands of the combat units throughout this deadly firefight. Time and time again the black Marines delivered the much needed ammunition. Though the Japanese actually shot two trucks from under one of the drivers, he kept coming back. Combat Marines who thought they had seen everything cheered this young, black Marine from their foxholes. The Montford Point Marines knew their job was to keep the combatants supplied and they did so with great valor and at great expense to their company. The Japanese soon saw this and began to make their assault on the Ammo Company as well as the combat Marines. The Montford Point Marines rose to the occasion by fighting off these attacks as they continued their supply missions. This is the courage and stamina that lead Admiral Nimitz, Commander of the Fleet in the Pacific to say, "On Iwo Jima, in the ranks of all the Marines who set foot on that Island uncommon valor was a common virtue."

[Custermen]

Don't forget the Tuskeegee Airmen (332nd FG; 99th FS; 100th FS; 301st FS; 302nd FS) and 616th-619th BSs.

 

Everyone seems to forget the all-black 477th Bombardment Group (M). {I thought it was called the 99 Bomb Group but Wikipedia says otherwise.}This was a unit that trained on the B-25's but they never reached the front lines due to a problem with morale. This unit organized a protest of their treatment while undergoing training at Freeman Field, Indiana. The mutiny resulted in 162 separate arrests of black officers.

 

I guess this unit wasn't included since they didn't make it into combat. Recommended reading: "Mutiny at Freedman Field".

 

 

The 92nd ID actually was integrated (in a way) in WW II.

 

The 92nd ID was re-organized after their poor performance in face of the German attack in the Serchio Valley called Operation WINTERGEWITTER from December 26 to 31, 1944. Over a 3 week period, almost half of the men of the 370 Infantry Regiment were transferred out and the experienced soldiers from the other two regiments were brought in to it. The white 473 Regimental Combat Team, converted from anti-aircraft personnel, and the the Japanese-American 442 Regimental Combat Team were attached to the 92ID----making it a truly integrated division.

 

Steve

(BTW- My Dad's artillery battalion was "attached" to the 92ID in Dec 1944 and also previously in WW1.)

[kammo-man]

Great subject guys !!!.

Any pictures of any PTO men at all .

owen

[D.A.T.]

Found this in one of my favorite websites. :thumbsup:

 

http://www.realmilitaryflix.com/public/403.cfm

[tredhed2]

Everyone seems to forget the all-black 477th Bombardment Group (M). {I thought it was called the 99 Bomb Group but Wikipedia says otherwise.}This was a unit that trained on the B-25's but they never reached the front lines due to a problem with morale. This unit organized a protest of their treatment while undergoing training at Freeman Field, Indiana. The mutiny resulted in 162 separate arrests of black officers.

 

I guess this unit wasn't included since they didn't make it into combat. Recommended reading: "Mutiny at Freedman Field".

The 92nd ID was re-organized after their poor performance in face of the German attack in the Serchio Valley called Operation WINTERGEWITTER from December 26 to 31, 1944. Over a 3 week period, almost half of the men of the 370 Infantry Regiment were transferred out and the experienced soldiers from the other two regiments were brought in to it. The white 473 Regimental Combat Team, converted from anti-aircraft personnel, and the the Japanese-American 442 Regimental Combat Team were attached to the 92ID----making it a truly integrated division.

 

Steve

(BTW- My Dad's artillery battalion was "attached" to the 92ID in Dec 1944 and also previously in WW1.)

 

None of the black bomb units made it overseas.

 

Also, there was a riot staged by AJAs at Ft. Snelling, MN in 1944 over their repeated training and being held there for an extensive length of time as they were only slated to replace casualties in the 442nd RCT.

 

The 442nd, while attached to the 92nd, was able to successfully accomplish missions attempted by the 370th RCT, notably Massa (by outflanking the enemy, instead of the usual hey diddle diddle, straight up the middle).

 

The 366th IR, which had also been attached for ops in the 92nd, was also withdrawn and used as a labor unit. They were $#%(* up from the get go. Originally a reserve unit, it had battalions all over CONUS; they never trained as a regiment prior to being activated; sent to Italy, they guarded airfields against cloud formations. They were attached to the 92nd, and, according to two 92nd ID officers I interviewed, were never made to feel as if they were a part of the 92nd. Just a FUBAR situation.