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USS Arizona Auction Pulled


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24 pieces of the ship's silver from the battleship USS Arizona were to be sold but the auction house started catching flak from navy lawyers.

~~>USS Arizona Silver Salvaged From Wreck

 

Like any collector, I'd love to have even a single piece, but this silver belongs at the Arizona Memorial in Pearl Harbor. Or, with the rest of the ship's silver at the Capitol Museum in Arizona.

~~>Silver from USS Arizona at Capitol Museum

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Good for the auction to pull it. It should be at the Museum where EVERYONE can see it. Not sold to private auction and then never to be seen again. The US Navy claims imminent domain anyways over all of their wrecks, ships, airplanes etc...so really its their property. Leaving it and other historical significant pieces underwater or in the mountains I don't agree with the Navy, but once it surfaces it should be in a venue where we the people can see it and appreciate it as part of our heritage.

 

some don't agree.....but I guess it is like the Medal Of Honor, you just don't go around selling it like a old canteen cup. OOps on the soap box sorry. :blush:

 

s/f- Dan

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This is just my own humble opinion but I feel that the silver should be returned to the ship and to the boys entombed within the Arizona. It is a small part of the ships inventory and rightfully it should remain with the ship. Return it to the cooks, stewards, and all the Sailors and Marines who sacraficed their lives for our freedom on December 7, 1941, and have taken up permanent residence in their beloved ship that I am sure many called home....

 

 

:salute:

 

MSG Leigh E Smith Jr

US Army (retired) 84/05

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So.... I read the article and will make some comments on what the article said.

 

A Navy spokesman, Bill Doughty, noting that lawyers were reviewing the matter, explained that "U.S. Navy craft and their associated contents remain the property of the U.S. Navy unless expressly abandoned or title is transferred by appropriate U.S. government authority."

 

Translated to mean "well send a pack of Navy lawyers after these people and threaten, cajole, and buffalo them into giving the Navy what for the last almst 68 years it has not cared about. And we'll make Cowans knuckle under because they don't want to endanger their lucrative auction business." And oh yeah, in 1997 we didn't want to buy it but now we want it so we're going to get it!

 

"USS Arizona is considered one of our nation's most sacred and hallowed historical sites," Doughty said. "Many of the 1,177 crewmen who died on Dec. 7, 1941, aboard the ship are entombed in the ship at the USS Arizona Memorial in Pearl Harbor. We cherish the memory of the sailors who sacrificed in World War II. The significance of USS Arizona should never be diminished or cheapened."

 

The sale of silverware salvaged from the ship cheapens or diminishes the significance of the USS Arizona?? Excuse me? And that would occur how??? My goodness, do they think Americans are that stupid and hollow to where the sale of a card table full of crusty silverware will accomplish that. BAH sheep, BAH!

 

The silver-plated artifacts, which include a teapot, saucers, candlestick and other items from the battleship's wardroom, had been consigned by the family of Navy diver Carl Webster Keenum, who apparently kept the items while salvaging remains, weapons, oil and other debris from the sunken ship during the war. Keenum died in 1964.

 

If one has read the book about the divers who salvaged the Arizona, you can read for yourself what those divers experienced while the salvaged parts of the ship. And speaking of salvaging the ship... the Navy sure did not seem to mind salvaging those parts of the ship that were cut free, then using at least some of the steel for other things. Did that diminish the loss of the Arizona too? Like the sale of this silverware will too?

 

Informed that the auction house had pulled the items, Gianotti said: "No one is a bad guy here. People just need to do the right thing, and I'm glad it happened so quickly."

 

No one is a bad guy here, but yet people need to "do the right thing,". I guess I do not understand that. If no one is doing anything bad, than how can their be a "right thing"??? Is is right or wrong to sell the stuff?

 

James Delgado, president of the Institute of Nautical Archaeology at Texas A&M University, said, "History increasingly has become a commodity for sale, and when it comes to a national treasure like the silver from USS Arizona, the thought of selling it to any bidder, where it could disappear for years, if not forever, is sad."

 

How quaint, and easy to say - he doesn't own the silverware and has no stake in the stuff NOT being sold. So sure, it IS too bad I guess then huh?

 

In a statement, Cowan said the gallery had withdrawn the items and urged the Keenum family to donate them to the USS Arizona Memorial Visitor Center.

 

Yeah, gee, how nice of them. Maybe if the stuff gets donated, Cowans will match the donation with an amount equal to the 15% premium the buyer would have paid, added to the % premium that Cowans would be charging the seller for selling the stuff for them. And then a donation on top of that too.

 

"Perhaps the family can help their sick relative by donating the items to Pearl Harbor, where they belong, and use the publicity to start a fundraiser," Gianotti said. "I'll be the first to donate."

 

Oh wow, what a humanitarian! Here is a suggestion, donate the estimate bid amount pal! Since you just cost that family that amount towards a luekemia bill, that'd be as stand up a thing to do as your costing them

what they could have made selling the stuff on auction.

 

The letter shows the family had tried to sell the items to the memorial association more than a decade ago, said Dan Martinez, Park Service historian for the memorial

 

This set of silverware was SO important to the Navy that they snapped it right up at the first chance in 1997. Oh wait, that's right, they passed on it and did not buy it. But isn't this stuff SO important that it HAS to go to a museum somewhere - lest the loss of the Arizona be diminished?? Now where did I read such a thing...

 

Such a letter, Martinez said, should not be part of the auction house's provenance authenticating the items. Quite the opposite: "There was no way of proving the items were genuine. They may be, but there was no authentication. In any event, we would have asked the family to donate the items so that they could be shared by all Americans."

 

Oh I see. The stuff is not authentic then I guess. Which is why the National Park Service or Department of the Interior want it so badly. Hey folks, looks to me like even the U.S. Government is not willing to say the stuff is authentic. In that case, they ought to drop any objections and end their sour grapes whining and let those people sell their PRIVATE PROPERTY THEY OWN.

 

I'm always amazed at the people on this and other Forums who are so willing to let the government come in and take. If the U.S. Government and the US Navy want it - then fine. Pay for it. $20,000 is an amazingly minute drop in the U.S. Government bucket. So if this stuff is the national treasure some seem to think it is, we'll all have no problem supporting the government decision to spend that drop in the bucket and send this stuff to Hawaii, right? And to those who think that small objects are items to be enshrined and revered and never bought or sold. It's just STUFF. And while we're gathering up the silverware, lets also gather up the killed in action named Purple Hearts to Pearl Harbor casualties, the non KIA stuff, the photo albums, etc, and heck, send all that to Hawaii too. We have to right? Because it's wrong that the stuff is in collector hands right? Even the stuff that the Navy salvaged and gave or threw away or sent home to surviving crew or next of kin of the dead? And to my fellow Forum member who supports the current Medal of Honor silliness as we know it today, that law has worked well - it's sent OUR HISTORY to Europe to be bought and sold. Check the latest Herman Historica auction catalog and you'll see exactly what I mean. Too bad a school kid in Europe could see a real live Medal of Honor and learn about it - but my kid can't because I cannot ever buy one.

 

Lets be mighty careful before we go wagging our fingers and saying "that's an outrage" and "it's history so that shouldn't be"...

 

That was my two cents - ok, my buck 42 cents. I'm done now.

 

MW

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Well,

 

Interesting points you bring up. MW. You are squarely pointing your comments my way so I will jump back in. YES, I think the silverware should be back in a museum. Where your kid can see it. The Navy has some pretty goofy rules and I agree with some of your points why was this not an issue in 1997? I don't know. I do know in 1997 the Navy was still taking warbirds back out of private hands. Why I don't know. Oh, yes I do know.....crappy leadership. the folks at the Air Museum and the Naval Historical Foundation are screwed up. If the Navy would have done the right thing back in 1941 we wouldn't be here. The air force and the Army did a hell of a better job saving their heritage then the Navy ever did. at least the Air Force is taking down their Gate Guard airplanes and replacing them with plastic replicas....or more modern aircraft to preserve the airplanes they stuck on the pole.

 

I am not talking about big Brother coming into your house and taking your collection. I was talking about a place in history that our nation says is significant and made a memorial there. Put the silverware there. have the Navy pay fair market value....YES, they won't and that is a crime. I am not "easy" to let the government come waltzing in and take what ever they want. But where do we stop with the buying and selling of history.....what is over the line?

 

The MOH is another thing you brought up. Should they be bought and sold in Europe? NO. I cannot stop that. wish I could, I can't. Ask yourself why they are being sold out of the family in the first place? How about we pass the hat and get them a few bucks get them through the hard time they are in to make them sell it, and have them keep it? 10 years from now when the hard time has passed, they might be glad they kept it. Maybe not, here comes the argument of "if it was so important then why did the family sell off Grandpas stuff?" Education, Honor, Respect, those are the virtues to instill in them so they don't sell off their heritage. but hey, lets make a fast buck and sell off the stuff.

 

You don't need a MOH in your personal collection to learn about the medal, its history, its striking, heraldry, we have plenty of books, museums and living MOH winners to do that. there is a MOH museum program to get one and display it....I never knew that until I read it on this forum. Get one of those.

 

Why do we collect? Preserve? Honor? Respect? YES. Or, do we buy at auction, private sale, trading, stuff that we want, for us....? Its ok to say yes. Some stuff I collect I know was worn in aerial combat or regular old stateside training mission, some named, some not doesn't matter. It makes me happy to know I am saving our heritage. I had a chance to buy a pretty nice Korean War vets estate. Nice gear, nice uniforms, one flight helmet and some other late 50's USAF flight gear. But his medals and ribbon bars and dress uniform stayed with the family. DFC, Air Medal, "they" needed to keep those. Not saying some us don't collect them, we do, if there is no family anywhere, then yes we preserve, protect, and give a place of honor to those valor awards in our collections. We show the collections, here on this forum, in displays set up during veterans day, memorial day etc...

 

But, do we really know where that USS Arizona silverware would have gone? Would anyone ever get a chance to see it again? We just don't know. I know one thing I don't have $20,000 bucks to buy it and show it off? if it really would go that high, it might go to a private collector, overseas? out of the country? I don't know. So why would we not try to keep it?

 

Yes the US Navy and its funny rules make me sick when it comes to preserving their history. They need to do the right I agree with that. You are right on on that point, if it truly was "PRIVATE PROPERTY" then they should pay to get it back, because clearly someone screwed up in letting out in the first place.

 

s/f - Dan

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Dan,

 

You and I are a lot closer on this entire argument than may first appear. I will clarify my comments a bit more tho.

 

My biggest gripe with the Navy and the US Govt. in this is their apparent willingness to say or do whatever it takes to buffalo these people trying to sell the stuff. What hypocrites. Let it go in the first place, then pass on it in 1997, then get these people coming out of the woodwork to say what cretins the family is for wanting to sell the stuff, etc etc etc. I think I made my points pretty well and pointed out the out and out hypocrisy, double speak, and disingeniousness of it all.

 

If the U.S. Govt. wants the stuff, then buy it at a market value, plain and simple. Maybe we should have used some of the billions in "stimulous" money to do it - everyone else seems to have gotten it for every other purpose under the sun. I mean come on - don't go sicing lawyers on some people just trying to pay bills. And shame on those self righteous people who made an issue about this. The U.S. Govt. has known where it was all along and didn't care until they saw a way to strong arm someone out of it at no cost - that's the simple fact.

 

I'll well familiar with the US Navy's track record on preserving aircraft wrecks - let them rot unless the Navy can sell them or trade them - their track record on letting wrecks in Lake Michigan sit there speaks for itself.

 

The funny thing about all this militaria we collect, I have found, is the fact that so many of the "it belongs with the family" crowd forgets the base fact of where the stuff came from in the first place - the families! I have multiple groups that I purchased from family members. It had nothing to do with the fact that they needed or wanted the money. It had everything to do with the fact that they just did not care and did not want the stuff, the fact that they could get rid of the stuff to someone it'd make happy to own it was what they cared about, the fact that they even sometimes get paid for the stuff is a bonus to them! I have medals and related items that families have given me and where the militantly refused every single offer of compensation I offered them. So to say the stuff belongs in museums or with families, well heck, I just disagree with that because I see first where the bulk of it all comes from anyway generally.

 

My Medal of Honor comments are to simply point out exactly what that has become - silliness - I know I don't need a real one - after all, I can just use the pictures from foreign eBay listings and auction houses to show what they are :(

 

Would it ultimately be nice for the silverware to be in a museum for all to see?? Absolutely. I'm more disgusted by how the entire Arizona silverware thing has played out than anything else about it, because yeah, I agree, it ought to be in a museum. But again, it's just stuff. And stuff that can be bought no less. It's not as if the family was selling it to have it melted down for teapots. Hypothetically, if the sister of an Arizona KIA wanted to sell the named Purple Heart she received from her brother's death, would everyone denounce her over that? Would we demand that she donate it to a museum? After all, is it not a historical symbol of the sacrifice of the Arizona? Take that original article and insert Purple Heart everywhere it says silverware and then rethink the article and your own take on what is right and wrong on this issue. Or insert sword. Or CSC book. I believe any manor of things were removed when the ship was salvaged, and are now with collectors.

 

Like I said, if it needs to go in a museum, whatever object it is, then fine, pay for it and donate it, or let the government pay for it and then do with it whatever they want. No one will object to that nor can they I think.

 

An interesting issue and dilemna all around, I think, as it brings into questions a lot of things associated and related to us as collectors!

 

MW

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As an aside, the book about the salvage divers operating at Pearl Harbor after the attack is really something. I cannot think of the name of it right off hand, but it was a heck of a read, I remember that. These divers going in and cleaning out and clearing out compartments, some filled with bodies which were decomposing, and having to work around that and in it and with it. I want to say at least a couple divers were also killed during the Arizona salvage operations, by explosions of gases which had built up and which were set off by their cutting torches. If I can find a link to the book I will post it.

 

I suspect the diver in this silverware controversy was right there doing exactly what the men in the books were doing.

 

MW

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Here is the book:

 

Decent Into Darkness

by Commander Edward C. Raymer

USN: A real life story about a navy diver conducting harbor clearance and salvage only days after Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor.

 

MW

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MW, everything you stated is on the money in regards to how one should look at this. I could understand if someone had looted the site but these were from someone who worked the wreck during the war and no one cared a blink then. Seeing silverware in some display would not matter to me at all.

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MW,

 

You are right we are in agreement with the Navy and their inability to preserve their own darned history. :thumbdown:

 

The USS Arizona silverware is just another chapter in a long book of foul ups by them. I agree with you they should pay market value and put it back on display....they won't they will just "take" and you and I agree that is screwed up.

 

the families and the medals. I don't know. It just confuses the crap out of me why some of these folks "just don't care". You are right however in saying sometimes they want you have them because you are a collector, a preserver, and respect the items in your collection. I get that, and it is a great point. I just wish these families understood what their men and women did to get these medals. I guess some do and thats why they want them with you and your collection.

 

I am sorry you have to see a MOH on Europe eBay thats BS and we both know it. :thumbdown: Wish there was something that could be done. You are also right if you insert Purple Heart everywhere.....now what?

 

I guess we as a collecting community and preservers of history need to continue to look at what we do, and we we do it.

 

You made excellent points all the way around. I get fired up at the Navy, especially their treatment of the aircraft you mentioned earlier. I have some first hand experience in that issue.

 

r/-Dan

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Right On! MW

I believe that if the vet or his family wants to sell something he earned let them. That includes the MOH. If some puke gets one and try to pass himself off throw the book at him. I never liked most museums anyway as I have seen the stuff go out the back door to buddies private collections. At least in private collections the person has an investment to protect.

Terry

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At the risk of being revealed for the evil monster that I am...

 

The MOH is another thing you brought up. Should they be bought and sold in Europe? NO.

 

You don't need a MOH in your personal collection to learn about the medal, its history, its striking, heraldry, we have plenty of books, museums and living MOH winners to do that.

 

Hooolllleeee crap, if that isn't ever a very steep slope made hopelessly slick with a putrid mucilaginous biofilm of misguided good intentions.

 

Look at the logical extension of that argument. "You don't need a" (fill in the blank) .45 auto, purple heart, Sherman tank, etc., etc. Where do you draw the line? Who draws the line? Third Reich souvenirs - naughty, naughty. Someone might be offended. You don't need them to study and appreciate WWII. Valor awards - already seriously encroached upon by a bunch of (-can't say that word which is a cryin' shame because it is a really, really great word-). Firearms - always under assault in one way or another. Military Vehicles - look what the guys in Wisconsin are fighting against right now.

 

There was a previous thread on this or another forum about some busybody in Canada who has made it exceedingly difficult to buy and sell medal groups because according to him and a bunch of political (-can't say that word either-), they "belong in the family or in a museum." Because of this, they often end up donated to places that have no use for them, where they will linger in the bottom of a drawer for eternity.

 

Bottom line - private property if private property. If someone feels that passionately about it, they should pony up the dough, buy the stuff, and put it where they feel it should be. Otherwise... (mods, I'll save you the trouble. censored - censored - censored.) Instead, they use public sentiment, political and economic pressure to get their way. Amazing how so many people these days feel so (censored.. again) entitled to dictate what is or is not done with someone else's personal property.

 

I know one thing I don't have $20,000 bucks to buy it and show it off? if it really would go that high, it might go to a private collector, overseas? out of the country? I don't know. So why would we not try to keep it?

 

Because it is not 'ours' to keep.

 

And while my blood is still bubbling... this business about the pseudo-tragedy of items "disappearing" into private collections instead of being in museums where the olympic booger mining team can be periodically marched pushing and shoving past the cases on their way to the gift shop - give me a break. I am a museum geek myself and yet I tire so quickly of the elitist argument that "our" history must be held in a public institution for all to see.

 

There a some great museums out there and some truly gifted museum exhibit designers, curators, etc. There are also a fair number of troubled institutions that are remarkably poor caretakers of history. All museums that I am connected with have financial troubles at the moment, and several of them have closed their doors (temporarily, they hope.) Throughout history some of the very best museum collections were the direct result of items being safeguarded for decades by private collectors. One is not necessarily better than the other, and the two are more often partners than adversaries.

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I have a set of silverware that was issued to "someone" in the army during WW2. Maybe I should auction it off as the personal property of Audie Murphy. But then, the government would suddenly find it "historically significant".

 

I really don't feel a handful of silverware is all that important. Return it to the cooks & stewards who used it on the Arizona? No offense, but they don't need it anymore. It's not as if there are ghosts sitting at the mess table waiting for others to finish so they can take a turn using the same shared silverware.

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... I am a museum geek myself and yet I tire so quickly of the elitist argument that "our" history must be held in a public institution for all to see.

 

There a some great museums out there and some truly gifted museum exhibit designers, curators, etc. There are also a fair number of troubled institutions that are remarkably poor caretakers of history. All museums that I am connected with have financial troubles at the moment, and several of them have closed their doors (temporarily, they hope.) Throughout history some of the very best museum collections were the direct result of items being safeguarded for decades by private collectors. One is not necessarily better than the other, and the two are more often partners than adversaries.

Well and rightly stated.

 

What frosted my nads for 35 years was the attitude that it is ONLY museums and curators who are smart enough to INTERPRET FOR US what history teaches and what is "worthy" of seeing - they've even made a whole industry out of doing so in the name of "education".

 

%^%$(*&^%^*())))&*&^$%%$%#$#^^&*()((())*&&^%$#$%^&^%$#@$!!!!!

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Thanks, Jeff for calling it the way it is. You are 'spot-on' in my opinion.

.....I just started to write my own diatribe, but I'll spare you all my angst as it has been said by Jeff and by MW much better than I could. We all need to be careful if we want to protect our Freedoms.

 

Bravo! :bravo:

Bobgee

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I wonder if the same sentiments would be shared about the under water tombs of the enemy? What if silverware off the HIJMS Kagi were salvaged and put up for auction? :think:

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Holy ape Sh*t did I get lambasted by you all. You all misinterpreted my intentions, but if you need a whipping boy to take your "private property" issues on and the US Govt. Fine do it.

 

You will not meet a guy so passionately against the government in my affairs then me. that is for sure! You don't work on, restore, own WWII airplanes for as long as I have and not get frustrated by the US Navy et al.

 

Museums only end up having a Booger Team at them getting to the gift shop....? wow nice one.

 

so let me get this straight, if someone has the dough and they are passionate they get to keep all the stuff? And none of us get to see it? hmmm

 

I said you don't need a MOH in your collection to appreciate it and learn about it. I didn't say you couldn't own one. I don't need a logical extension of anything you took my post out of context. I don't like the medals being sold overseas, that makes me a bad guy?

 

Look at the logical extension of that argument. "You don't need a" (fill in the blank) .45 auto, purple heart, Sherman tank, etc., etc. Where do you draw the line? Who draws the line? Third Reich souvenirs - naughty, naughty.

 

You didn't just compare me to Nazis did you? I sure hope not. or did I take that out of context? In another post a guy thinks I am Japanese sympathizer.

 

I told MW I agreed with his arguments, and that I was more upset at the Navy "taking" something that wasn't theirs. Like the F4F "Wildcat" I worked on for over 5 years and the FBI and Navy just "took" it.

 

Yes I think the Arizona silverware either belongs with the men of the Arizona, or on display with the rest of the silverware. and YES I THINK THE NAVY SHOULD PAY FOR IT.

 

I have nothing against Private collectors.....I am one. I have nothing against museums. some good, some bad. If I offended with my opinion that the silverware should go back to the Arizona or a museum I am sorry , but it was an opinion that's all. Now I am all for big government and against "private property"? give me a break guys. This is a slippery slope. You are all right where does it end? I don't know.

 

I just simply said.....good it is going back to the Navy and I "HOPE" they do the right thing, and YES they should pay fair market dollar for it. I agreed with MW on his other posts, and maybe some of you didn't read all the way down, but no matter I guess I can take it.

 

Dan

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The Navy reminds me of a child who has a old broken toy and does not give it the time of day. Then when another person wants to play with it or use it them selves the child get angry and throws a temper tantrum. The family of this diver did nothing wrong and they are just trying to sell the silver to cover medical expenses. They tried to even sell it to the Navy but where given the cold shoulder. As has been proven with various planes before the Navy would just assume let them rot until an enthusiast attempts to restore a plane and then all hell brakes loose. What use does the Navy have for a plane if they are going to just let it rust? They should be pleased that someone is taking a personal interest in their history and sell it to them or better yet give it to them provided that they have the funds to do a resto. Bottom line : the silver being sold does not diminish the sacrifice of the men of the Arizona and the family has every right to sell it. Shame on you Navy for being a bully when you pick and choose which laws you follow when you did not care enough about the silver to buy it in the first place!

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Yes I think the Arizona silverware either belongs with the men of the Arizona, or on display with the rest of the silverware. and YES I THINK THE NAVY SHOULD PAY FOR IT.

 

I have nothing against Private collectors.....I am one. I have nothing against museums. some good, some bad. If I offended with my opinion that the silverware should go back to the Arizona or a museum I am sorry , but it was an opinion that's all. Now I am all for big government and against "private property"? give me a break guys. This is a slippery slope. You are all right where does it end? I don't know.

 

I just simply said.....good it is going back to the Navy and I "HOPE" they do the right thing, and YES they should pay fair market dollar for it. I agreed with MW on his other posts, and maybe some of you didn't read all the way down, but no matter I guess I can take it.

 

Dan

 

 

Tough call guys. In the UK, they have a law that if somebody finds a valuable historical item that the government is interested in, usually through metal detecting on private property (with permission, of course), the government will pay a fair market value for the items if they want them. It's a tricky situation with the USS Arizona. The items were obviously removed illegally when the salvage diver kept the items he salvaged. The same situation happened in the UK, when a guy found one of Henry the VIII's collar rubies in a gold frame in a public park back in the 1990's. The guy declared the find, but it was confiscated instead because he illegally detected on public property. Estimated value was around 50,000 pounds sterling at the time.

 

The question is do you reward illegal behavior or promote transparency in the hopes of recovering items with the intent to sell and thus preserving them? Without a doubt, there should be a statute of limitations on this stuff. If evidence supports that the USS Arizona's silver was removed from the ship in WWII or immediately afterwards, then those in possesion of it should not be bothered by the US Government unless the government wants to purchase the items for display to the public. As mentioned above, what is $20,000 to the government? Trust me, $20,000 ain't nothing in the big scheme of things.

 

The same should go for the Great Lakes planes. If somebody invests the money and recovers the aircraft with navy oversight to make sure they don't destroy it in the process, then let be. If the Navy wants it, then they should recover the plane themselves or pay the salvagers $150,000 or so for the aircraft, depending on the shape. In today's world of $2M warbirds, it's still a bargain.

 

-Ski

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CNY Militaria

The government will buy artifacts for museums. I saw the opening of one such exhibit to a very important service member. A local collector found it all at an estate sale and offered it to the Gov't for $10,000. They bought it and have it on display. Now, when considering what it would go for on open market, it would sell for easily two to three times that.

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I guess that this argument hinges on the silver being removed from the Arizona legally. If it was taken without permission then the Navy has every right to recover it. If it was taken when the govt did not care and when the diver got permission then it I hope the Navy just buys it and puts it in a museum. Another note, I looked at the rest of the silver and I looks alot better in conditon than the proposed auction's silver. What's up with that. Was it removed at a different time that the rest of the set?

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vostoktrading

I've had nothing but bad or have heard of bad experiences with established museums from friends. The Bishop Museum, The Army Museum at Fort DeRussy in Waikiki, the Maritime Museum in Honolulu, the Fire Department Museum in Honolulu. Items lost, missplaced, not cared for, stolen... I feel there must be good museums out there and I'm sure there are, but my experience tells me to steer clear of them, myself, my family and my friends have been burned too many times. You have good stuff and want to donate? Think twice... Jon.

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MW and Teamski are on target imho....

 

The only real question to me is when and under what circumstances the silver was recovered? If it was during the war or soon after, that lends legitamcy to the private ownership argument. If it happened 10 years ago, you're pretty much screwed because the wreck was definately a protected location.

 

Otherwise, the govt. should bid at the auction just like everybody else. They overstep their powers way too much.

 

And, no one should assume that just because they get the items that they will ever be displayed or appreciated by the public. (1), Most of the public really doesn't care about most of this stuff. (2) The real destination will probably be in a box in wharehouse somewhere, never to see the light of day.

 

Think of the tons of amazing artifacts that institutions own......The D-day museum, the Gettysburg visitor's center, etc. Tons of stuff in storage that no one will ever see.

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