40mm vest question

[CamoDeafie]

 

 

lets say the grenadier who was issued this vest, had a M16A2 with M203, how would he have carried his "standard load" of 6+1 30 rd magazines, in addition to the grenades? I see bottom of each panel have pockets for 5 grenades each, plus 4 more pockets going up on each panel, for a total of 18 grenades (who'd be crazy enough to carry 18!? lol) I figure they'd have smoke, flares, High Explosive Anti Personnel, maybe anti tank rounds if they had, but mostly anti-personnel and smoke, maybe flares for night fighting?

[mpguy80/08]

 

 

lets say the grenadier who was issued this vest, had a M16A2 with M203, how would he have carried his "standard load" of 6+1 30 rd magazines, in addition to the grenades? I see bottom of each panel have pockets for 5 grenades each, plus 4 more pockets going up on each panel, for a total of 18 grenades (who'd be crazy enough to carry 18!? lol) I figure they'd have smoke, flares, High Explosive Anti Personnel, maybe anti tank rounds if they had, but mostly anti-personnel and smoke, maybe flares for night fighting?

 

I wore the Load Bearing Vest for the better part of five years at Fort Carson, but I've never seen a vest like this for the 40mm rounds for the M203. Our unit was still issued the vietnam issued mesh vests for the 40mm rounds to be worn over the basic LBV. In Iraq, we didnt bother with the vests, instead carrying the rounds in the bandoliers. A pistol belt would be fitted to the bottom of this LBV in the same fashion as with the normal LBV with pouches for the M-4/M-16 magazines. Two or more M-16 LC-2 ammo pouches would be carried on this belt along with Two canteens and whatever other gear the soldier carried. You can see the snap loops hanging from the bottom of the vest that would attach the belt to the vest.

 

Hopes this helps.

 

Wayne

[CamoDeafie]

yeah i know the belt attaches to those loops, my question here is, since it has signs of unit markings, and looks used, and was made in 1997, how would the M16 pouches interface with the bottom row of the 40mm pockets? you can see that they're 5 per panel on the bottom row....right against the belt...confuses me...I;'m aware that the VN era/style mesh vests were the norm for the majority of the troops though...and they didnt have belt loops, correct?

[CamoDeafie]

 

 

 

using TP rolls' tubes stuffed with socks, and using my paintball tubes in the M16 mag pouch, here is how the mag pouch interfere with at least 2 of the 40 mm pockets...my guess is, would the user more likely leave some of the lower nade pockets empty in order to be able to have the M16 mag pouches in there and canteens as well? (set up is basically small belt, 1 IFAK in back, 2 canteens, 2 m16 pouches attached to vest)

[SGM (ret.)]

No, the grenadier carried 40mm in every pocket. There's really no interference issues with the M16 ammo pouches and the loaded 40mm pockets, at least none which would justify loading out with less ammo than possible. The only reason to carry less would be a lack of available ammo. The main difficulty for the grenadier is to remember which type of 40mm is in which pocket. However, as long as he loads out the same way each time, he will establish a system for that that he can remember.

 

When I was working down at the door-kicker level, my team carried a double basic load of 5.56 and the grenadiers carried not only a full load in the vest, but extra rounds in the outside pockets of their rucks. Each guy is a little different, but generally, right-handed shooters tend to use the ammo in the left-hand pockets and pouches for re-loads first. As for my self, my empty M16 mags went into my left pants cargo pocket (front flap button un-fastened, back button fastened). As soon as there is a break in the action, the first thing everyone is doing is readjusting their ammo load (full mags to the empty pouches and pockets), empty mags to the right (or left side), a count of rounds remaining, and getting ready to redistribute ammo across the team if ordered to do so. The grenadiers are doing the same, only they're adding ammo from their rucks is they still have them (the rucks, that is).

 

But this is only one of many variations of the same theme that wil get the job done. As they say,"techniques are like a**holes, everybody has their own."

 

In general, carrying all this stuff is just hot, hard d**n work - period. There's no easy way. That vest, fully loaded with ammo and water is heavy as h*ll. Add in the rifle and M203, a subsistance load and mission-essential equipment in the ruck, and after about 30 minutes, you feel like a pack mule. This is something that most people who have never actually done the job don't ever realize. How physically hard just moving around is.

 

Compared to all the other "inconvenences," the slight interference between the top of the mag pouch and the botton of the 40mm pocket is no real impediment to the reload. If the grenadier feels that it is a problem, he'd most likely use that 40mm round first. Problem solved.

 

HTH,

Mike

[CamoDeafie]

SGM(ret.) Mike, thanks for the info and enlightenment! so basically, a mix of 40s, full combat load of 6+1 magazines, canteens, first aid kit shown, in addition to ruck sack, would be very very heavy, but also be a good example of the guy humping the M203? interesting.....I had wondered why so few of these vests were issued or used....hm. did see an archived thread on Mil Photos about M203 load outs and it seems that several Grenadiers who's BTDT (been there, done that) would try to get more 40mms on their load outs due to the "SHTF" factors....accurate, no?

 

also, I used the stuff to fill in space for display purposes...plans are in mind to make 5 or 6 different molds for resin 203s just for display lol.

[SGM (ret.)]

Can't speak for other organizations, but the M203 vest was a unit item (MTOE) and not an individual TDA issue item from CIF where I was. They were on the commander's hand receipt with a basis of issue of one per M203 on the unit's MTOE. This might account for the scarcity in the surplus market. I believe the MOLLE is issued with M203 pockets as an individual item (but I could very well be wrong on that).

 

The amount of M203 ammo issued is a very flexible number and dependent on many factors. We could count on getting as much as we requested, so for us, the limiting factor was how much weight the grenadier could carry. We were very conscious to distribute loads as equally as possible. Mission requirements dictated what equipment was essential for a particular job, and took priority over everything else, including ammo. After mission essential equipment came everything else. Our grenadiers (and everybody else) carried a lot more than just their individual weapons, ammo, and subsistence loads.

 

There is no hard fast rule that applies for all situations, with the exception of (as long as you can carry it), "it's better to have and not need, than need and not have." The limitation of the soldier's ability to hump the load is bottom line.

 

I think there are a couple of companies that make dummy (cast) 40mm rounds. Don’t forget that there was more than just HEDP. Various star cluster and parachute flair rounds are common for signaling and illumination. (Although with the almost universal issue of NODs, illumination rounds are not such a big deal any more.) Again, just depends on what you’re doing as to what you’re carrying.

[Mercenary25]

camodeafie, talk to panzerwerk. He can mold 40mm's for you.