Jump to content

Part II early US Air Force transitional


louie
 Share

Recommended Posts

The 9th Air Force was a private purchase at a popular clothing store here in Southern California till they went broke in the eighties I think. He bought the jacket in 1950, year I was born!

post-470-1256764246.jpg

post-470-1256764254.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 9th Air Force was a private purchase at a popular clothing store here in Southern California till they went broke in the eighties I think. He bought the jacket in 1950, year I was born!

 

 

That's just three years before me! These are nice jackets. Gratifying to know that I'm not the only collector with an interest in this period. I've got several similar ones myself plus some transitional O/D ones with USAF insignia/ blue stripes etc. I'll dig them out and add to this post...hopefully tomorrow.

 

Ian :thumbsup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 9th Air Force was a private purchase at a popular clothing store here in Southern California till they went broke in the eighties I think. He bought the jacket in 1950, year I was born!

 

post-8022-1256765421.jpg

 

 

Co-incidentally, I posted these elsewhere a couple of weeks ago. Nothing to do with the USAF of course, but demonstrates that Desmond's was a military outfitter in the broadest sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Going through more duffle bags always brings out more stuff. Here are more 50s Air Force jackets.

 

Louie's post prompted me to dig out a couple of my "transitional" USAF uniforms. Here they are. My favourite is the all-singing/all-dancing OD "Ike". There was an official wear-out period pending the introduction of the new "blue suit". So, OD uniforms, for a time, sported an ecclectic mix of old AAF and new USAF insignia, as seen here. The original wearer obviously served with the 9th AF in WW2 and remained in the service as we can tell from his USAFE patch and Berlin Airlift medal ribbon. The collar brass was briefly worn on upper and lower lapels, officer-style. The cut out EMs winged prop device and "US" were still brass at this time but were changed to silver for wear on the blue uniform.

 

post-8022-1256816816.jpg

 

post-8022-1256816850.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is the USAF EM's blue "Ike" suit, circa May '49. Essentially similar to its WW2 predecessor, it differs slightly in cut and has button/tab adjustors rather than the earlier buckle/strap type. The pants are similar to the OD Army type. SSIs were still worn at this time, in this instance a nice quality, privately purchased, bullion 9th AF patch. Ironically, the service with probably the widest range of patches deleted SSIs from service its service dress soon after. An interesting feature of this jacket are the "tailor shop" US devices made from silver bullion thread on a blue wool backing.

 

post-8022-1256817568.jpg

 

post-8022-1256817589.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Captainofthe7th

Very nice uniforms, both of you. I really enjoy seeing these transitional uniforms...unfortunately I only have one myelf, but I am glad to see other collectors appreciating them.

 

Rob

Link to comment
Share on other sites

vintageproductions

Here's one we have in the shop. It's unusual in that it is the first B-14 I have seen being worn in the transitional period.

 

trans1.JPG

 

trans2.JPG trans3.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's one we have in the shop. It's unusual in that it is the first B-14 I have seen being worn in the transitional period.

 

post-492-1256853166.jpg

 

post-492-1256853173.jpg post-492-1256853180.jpg

 

 

Very cool! Shop you say? So what kind of price tag would it carry, may I ask?

 

Ian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Louie's post prompted me to dig out a couple of my "transitional" USAF uniforms. Here they are. My favourite is the all-singing/all-dancing OD "Ike". There was an official wear-out period pending the introduction of the new "blue suit". So, OD uniforms, for a time, sported an ecclectic mix of old AAF and new USAF insignia, as seen here. The original wearer obviously served with the 9th AF in WW2 and remained in the service as we can tell from his USAFE patch and Berlin Airlift medal ribbon. The collar brass was briefly worn on upper and lower lapels, officer-style. The cut out EMs winged prop device and "US" were still brass at this time but were changed to silver for wear on the blue uniform.

 

post-8022-1256816816.jpg

 

post-8022-1256816850.jpg

 

VERY nice Ike! I have one similar to it (OD jacket, USAF blue S/Sgt stripes, USAFE patch), but nowhere near so "fully loaded" as yours!

Mine did come with the cut-out collar devices in brass color, but not in 2 pairs ("officer like") as you have pictured. It simply has the wing insignia on the left lapel, the US on the right.

I also have a photo of my Dad in shirtsleeves during the Airlft, and he has one cut-out wing on his left shirt collar, and one cut-out US on the right shirt collar.

Do you think there was a correct way to wear this lapel/collar insignia, or is this just another example of the variation we seem to see for that period?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

VERY nice Ike! I have one similar to it (OD jacket, USAF blue S/Sgt stripes, USAFE patch), but nowhere near so "fully loaded" as yours!

Mine did come with the cut-out collar devices in brass color, but not in 2 pairs ("officer like") as you have pictured. It simply has the wing insignia on the left lapel, the US on the right.

I also have a photo of my Dad in shirtsleeves during the Airlft, and he has one cut-out wing on his left shirt collar, and one cut-out US on the right shirt collar.

Do you think there was a correct way to wear this lapel/collar insignia, or is this just another example of the variation we seem to see for that period?

 

 

Just looked thru the thread on these transitional uniforms and a couple of postings show the early USAF brass colored insignia worn 'enlisted style' with just one cut-out wing and one US. But of course that doesn't mean any rules were carved in stone........be interesting to see some more photos taken back in the late 40s!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...that doesn't mean any rules were carved in stone........be interesting to see some more photos taken back in the late 40s!

Actually, there were some stone carvings:

 

post-1963-1256879736.jpg

 

post-1963-1256879745.jpg

...which does not mean troops on-the-hoof did not make "local adjustments" to regulations and period pictures are the gold standard for demonstrating this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, there were some stone carvings:

 

post-1963-1256879736.jpg

 

post-1963-1256879745.jpg

...which does not mean troops on-the-hoof did not make "local adjustments" to regulations and period pictures are the gold standard for demonstrating this.

 

Fast work there! Yes, seems to be that one disc per lapel was the rule, which makes sense. But as you imply, personnel bent rules!

 

By the way, I have examples of cut-out wing collar discs but silver in color. Obviously predating the silver US worn on USAF blues, and I presume coming after the brass. But I have yet to ever see a uniform with this insignia attached. Know anything about them?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, there were some stone carvings:

 

post-1963-1256879736.jpg

 

post-1963-1256879745.jpg

...which does not mean troops on-the-hoof did not make "local adjustments" to regulations and period pictures are the gold standard for demonstrating this.

 

Thanks for posting this interesting info. It's reminded me I that have an original edition of the USAF Officers' Guide (circa '50'/'51 I think?) in a box somewhere! I must dig it out and check out the insignia regs as published then. Re the double sets of Enlisted collar brass, I believe this was officially authorised by the Army between '46 > '51 after which time it was rescinded. This co-incides with that "transitional" period between the AAF/USAF and the wierd and wonderful uniform styles that evolved then. There is photographic evidence out there which documents this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, there were some stone carvings:

 

post-1963-1256879736.jpg

 

post-1963-1256879745.jpg

...which does not mean troops on-the-hoof did not make "local adjustments" to regulations and period pictures are the gold standard for demonstrating this.

 

An example of USAF Airmans' collar devices ny N.S.Meyer.

 

post-8022-1256900726.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fast work there! Yes, seems to be that one disc per lapel was the rule, which makes sense. But as you imply, personnel bent rules!

 

By the way, I have examples of cut-out wing collar discs but silver in color. Obviously predating the silver US worn on USAF blues, and I presume coming after the brass. But I have yet to ever see a uniform with this insignia attached. Know anything about them?

 

I too have a silver winged prop cutout brass & I believe they were short lived and intended to replace the brass colored ones used previously. Evidently, the silver ones didn't last long. I have a xerox copy of the 1951 Airman's Guide and it seems to indicate that a silver winged prop would be worn on the then new blues. However, I have talked to several veterans of the transition era, and none remember wearing the silver winged prop, just the pierced US on each lapel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I too have a silver winged prop cutout brass & I believe they were short lived and intended to replace the brass colored ones used previously. Evidently, the silver ones didn't last long. I have a xerox copy of the 1951 Airman's Guide and it seems to indicate that a silver winged prop would be worn on the then new blues. However, I have talked to several veterans of the transition era, and none remember wearing the silver winged prop, just the pierced US on each lapel.

On Ebay last week there was an auction for an AF Ike jacket, and this is the first one I have ever seen where the enlistment hash marks were on the left, and he had six overseas bars on the right Army style. There was no SSI on the jacket. It seems until all the Army insignia was taken off, there was really a mix of whatever seemed right at the time. I also have some silver prop and wing officer insignia in silver, but can't remember if I got them off a uniform, or from wherever.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

More stone rubbings:

 

post-1963-1256946772.jpg

This was the directive that laid out the details of the new Air Force Blue uniform (a cut-and-paste job to focus on the subject at hand). As we see, it clearly omits the wing-and-prop enlisted collar insignia with respect to the new uniform. This directive was published less than eight months after the August 1948 directive specifying a gold colored wing-and-prop collar insignia on enlisted men's uniforms (i.e., on Army style OD jackets and khaki shirts). It does not seem likely that a silver colored wing-and-prop version of this insignia would have been authorized and then dropped within such a short interval....but, maybe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seeing is believing? USAF maintains a Web gallery of basic training class photos running back to the 1940s. Here is a clip from the earliest picture showing basic trainees wearing the new Blues, in October 1950. Test your eyesight and see if you can find any wing-and-prop collar insignia here:

 

post-1963-1256947313.jpg

Link here to see the rest of this picture and the entire gallery.

 

And here is my simple WAG to explain why the obsolete wing-and-prop enlisted collar insignia is shown in Airman's Guide: The publisher made a mistake. The text and the graphics do not match:

 

post-1963-1256947617.jpg

Source: Airman's Guide (2nd ed., May 1951).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

More stone rubbings:

 

post-1963-1256946772.jpg

This was the directive that laid out the details of the new Air Force Blue uniform (a cut-and-paste job to focus on the subject at hand). As we see, it clearly omits the wing-and-prop enlisted collar insignia with respect to the new uniform. This directive was published less than eight months after the August 1948 directive specifying a gold colored wing-and-prop collar insignia on enlisted men's uniforms (i.e., on Army style OD jackets and khaki shirts). It does not seem likely that a silver colored wing-and-prop version of this insignia would have been authorized and then dropped within such a short interval....but, maybe.

 

I agree, it does seem unlikely. But I own a pair of those EM silver cut-out prop and wing lapel devices. Think maybe they were experimental, and never officially used? Much like the later "horizontal" blue stripes that were made and never issued. I have a complete set (3 ranks) of those, but never yet seen a photo of anybody wearing them.

Incidentally, also seen on eBay: silver prop & wing, but without the cut-out! Just like AAF, but in silver. Now, where did they fit in?!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...Think maybe they were experimental, and never officially used? Incidentally, also seen on eBay: silver prop & wing, but without the cut-out! Just like AAF, but in silver. Now, where did they fit in?!

Hypothesis: Insignia manufacturers jumped the gun. At some point they realized that the Air Force was moving from gold color metal insignia to silver and they got ready for it. As they already had U.S. and wing-and-prop dies in their manufacturing processes, it was no big deal to produce and package both designs on the speculation that the USAF would continue using wing-and-prop insignia on the Blues. WAG: Silver color wing-and-prop insignia were in Army & Navy stores before the 1949 directive came out; were bought; were worn. Anyone else?

 

As for your eBay sighting of a silver color wing-and-prop on a filled disc, where it would fit in (chronologically) would depend on how it is made (url?) Another WAG: It is a commercial variant of contemporary enlisted Army Aviation brass, worn since 1983 (link here).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...