Collectability Of Iraq / Afghanistan War Issued Uniforms

[AirMechanic]

I see alot of posts on here from collectors who collect uniforms (BDU's / DCU's, etc) from the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. I dont personally collect them, and I am not criticizing anyone who does. I always wondered though if the collectability of these uniforms was ever brought into doubt by the readily available, inexpensive supply of uniforms with no insignia and the patches and insignias themselves? For instance, someone might spend good money on a BDU with a CIB Patch, Jump Wings Patch, Air Assault Patch, Ranger Patch, etc from the war in Iraq or Afghanistan when infact the patches were added to a plain uniform. These patches can often be found in the dollar bin at most militaria shows, while the uniforms themselves can be found for a few bucks more. I'm not saying someone would be doing this purposely to make money, as in the end, you wouldnt really make all that much. But in the same instance, even a WWII period uniform, that has authentic insignia and pins added, the collectability is also in those pins and patches themselves, even if they were added later on. Any thoughts?

[CamoDeafie]

while your thoughts have merit, i personally steer away from stripped DCUs and BDUS.....since oftentimes, they'd be used for airsoft, paintball, hunting, halloween costumes....but truth be told? if its got names, ranks, and unit patches, depending again on which unit, then that would be a little harder to find nowadays, as the DCUs are drying up due to several collectors snapping them up...so you might see less of them in surplus and flea and thrift store.......the dollar bin stuff, well, since its is also PX and issue stuff, yes your concerns are very valid, as it is quite possible for someone with expertise and patience to resew patches and names onto the stripped stuff, BUT a sign of them would be akin to the VN stuff, wrinkling of material behind patches, comparative fading of patch and new PX patch, and so on.....in a few years, we might see the same problems with the BDU and DCUs as we saw with the VN uniforms (faked, airsoft/SG/paintball, etc)

[37thguy]

I've got one right from my buddy who actually wore it overseas in Iraq. His unit is the same as I collect, so I see it as an extension or continuation of what I already collect! Wouldn't sell or trade it for anything! :thumbsup:

[CNY Militaria]

By the time they get all the parts and have them professionally sewn on, it is not worth the effort to make a few bucks. So, Most patched DCU's/BDU's you will find are legit.

[shrapneldude]

ACUs -- with the velcro-on rank and SSI are going to be a nightmare for collectors in the future. Probably not even worth messing with. It's pretty easy to get name tapes made up, get a set of General stars and some SSI and there you go. Named General's combat uniform.

[Stinger Gunner USMC]

Keep in mind that those WWII uniforms that are now highly collectable were at one time just plain uniforms and the insignia for them were once very available. People who are collecting modern stuff are just speculating on the future of our hobby. Look at what Vietnam era combat uniforms are doing currently. When I started collecting 18 years ago there was pages full of jungle jackets patched out etc. on ebay for very reasonable prices. They weren't worth much then so I bother paying any attention to them. Now I sure with I had!

 

While I don't collect modern militaria as I currently feel that I have enough from my own seabag from when I was in, but I admire those who do. They are respecting those of us who served in OIF/OEF by ensuring that our story will be told when we are the aging population that the Vietnam/Korean and WWII generations are today.

[BEAST]

ACUs -- with the velcro-on rank and SSI are going to be a nightmare for collectors in the future. Probably not even worth messing with. It's pretty easy to get name tapes made up, but a set of General stars and there you go.

 

For me, the other problem with the ACUs when compared against the DCUs is that with the DCUs you know that they were only issued to troops going into that theater, while ACUs are issued to everyone. For my collection, I would concentrate on ID'd DCUs unless there is some sort of field modification indicating its use by special ops.

[Bob Hudson]

By the time they get all the parts and have them professionally sewn on, it is not worth the effort to make a few bucks. So, Most patched DCU's/BDU's you will find are legit.

 

True - here's something I found a couple weeks ago, two of them from the same officer. I resold them for more than they cost at the thrift store, but to buy a plain shirt, buy the patches and then pay someone to sew them on would cost so much that you wouldn't make a profit trying to resell them (oh and I forgot to mention the time and work needed to age the sewn-on patches).

 

 

Today I picked up two more shirts with a similar number of patches, from a Corps of Engineers Lt. Col with Airborne rockers: that's not one you could make up :think:

 

Of course we see WWII and Vietnam era uniforms faked up all the time and perhaps at some point in the future it might be worth someone's while to do that with the Gulf War stuff, but for now there's enough interesting real things - and prices are not all that high - to supply demand.

[SGM (ret.)]

It's a pretty interesting question and discussion. I retired only a few years ago, and since the current uniforms are too contemprorary to my own time (and like StingerGunner, I have duffle bags full of the same stuff issued to me), I don't collect these either. (I wonder if that's a trend... How close to his own own service time does a prior service collector collect?)

 

However, I'm always looking and am blown-away sometimes by the low prices of these uniforms. During my time in service, the BDU top shown by Forum Support (LTC Campbell's top) would've cost about $25 in the PX just to get the patches sewed on, not to mention the cost of the the patches and the top itself (depending on when they were bought in Clothing Sales, maybe as little as another $25 or as much as $45 - unit patches are issued, but only one time and in limited numbers, so odds are likely the colonel purchased most of his - certainly the name tapes and US Army and rank). So, the cost new to the colonel for that top was at least $50, and probably more.

 

I'm guessing that Forum Support didn't pay quite that much for it in the thrift store, and probably didn't sell it for that much either.

 

When I see a set of Dress Blues going for $20-30 I want to cry over the $200+ that the set hanging in my closet cost me new. It was quite a hole in my paycheck at the time. They're worth about one tenth to a collector as they actually cost.

 

So, to the OP's initial concern about faking these uniforms by purchasing stripped tops and adding the patches is not so worrisom (unless it's for highly desirable items) since the low values don't justify the cost and effort to fab-up the put-togethers. Still, as time passes, I'm guessing that value will increase, but we're looking maybe decades before they get high enough to off-set the costs of the purchase of new uniforms right now.

 

In many ways, collecting contemporary uniforms is a very good return on the money if that's where your interest lie. As an investment though, I think there are some long waits ahead to see any appreciable increase in value and return on the money spent.

 

Just my random thoughts...

Mike

[gwb123]

As several people have pointed out, its a matter of economics.

 

People are finding great BDU's and DCU's at Goodwill and Salvation Army for $7 a piece, and $15 to $25 at surplus stores.

 

Fake artists do not put these together to donate them to Goodwill or to sell them to surplus stores.

 

Now is the time to buy these uniforms. 10 to 15 years ago you readily found Vietnam items in these places, and now they are hard to come by.

The value of these will only go up, especially since they were only issued for a specfic period of time.

 

Now as far as the BDU's and DCU's you see sold through auctions, as mentioned above you would want to exercise the same cautions as with Vietnam period uniforms. When prices go above $25, you start to see put together uniforms.

[Stinger Gunner USMC]

The one thing I can add is that while with WWII uniforms you can accept hand sewn patches as being original to the jacket, at least you know with these more modern uniforms that 99% of the time it will be machine sewn, as I know that no Marine would ever get away with hand sewn nametapes or in the case of dress uniforms, rank or service stripes. I assume that the other branches are the same, as I can't recall ever having seen a hand sewn patch on a modern uniform for any branch of service, although I guess there is always going to be that one guy in the unit that is lazy or protesting spending the money at the post tailor's shop or just doesn't give a crap because he is getting out etc...

[hawkdriver]

Actually, we have had some aviators show up with patches hand sewn on. It looked so out of place that they were made to feel that they should take better pride in their uniforms and get the things sewn on right. Being ALSE with a sewing machine, I would usually do it for them.

When I was a industrious young 2LT, I spent the $125 and bought a heavy duty sewing machine and charged .50 cents a patch to sew them on until my machine was paid for.

As for people sewing uniforms up, I wish I had a picture of it now, but there is a surplus store down the road that the guy did this when he didn't have anything better to do. After stocking the shelves and cleaning was done, instead of sitting around waiting or a purchase, he sewed patches and repaired uniforms. His time didn't mean anything when he was already on the clock, so he sat up in the loft and sewed away. If he saw you in the store, he would yell down at you from his perch. If he got to know you, he would make whatever patched up shirt you wanted, of course everyone wanted SF crap for halloween.

He has long since passed away and his son that now owns the store just sits around watching TV in his spare time.

[mvmhm]

I agree that it's not worht the time, effort and cost to "fake-up" BDUs, ACUs etc - for now. As with everything else, it's going to take time and increased demand to drive prices up. I collect from all eras, but each week at the base thrift shop there's always some complete uniforms, although most people will pull off their name tapes before tunring the stuff in for consignment. So, there's an abundance of no-named tops...but if I find one that I think is worth getting, I can always go to the base tailor and get new name tapes made....currently though, I only buy a BDU, ABU or what have you if it's got all the buables on it and is $6 or less...of course there a re a few exceptions, but generally even brand spanking new ABUs only cost $10 - $15 in the thrift shop. Thinking back on all the Vietnam stuff I saw at the thrift shop at Keesler Air Force Base in the early 1980's, I could kick myself for not stocking up then.

 

Mark sends

[Nkomo]

Let me weigh in on this topic. First off, I want to say one thing.....I do not collect for the resale value. I have a lot of DCU's that I have bought from thrift shops, surplus shops, pawn shops, etc. I sold one of my DCU's about a year ago and have regretted it ever since. I collect strictly to preserve history. I think the story that our fighting men and women who have served in OIF/OEF needs to be preserved for future generations. I do not view this hobby as a long term investment.

 

That being said, I enjoy driving to the above mentioned places and digging through the piles of DCU's the soldiers have turned in. I enjoy looking at the patch combinations and being able to determine where the jacket was used. To me it is all about the histroy and research.

 

My formula for buying DCU's is try to stick with surplus shops, thrift stores, and pawn shops. I try not to pay more than $5 for a patched DCU shirt. If it is a rare combination of patches, I will pay a bit more. I try to avoid Ebay because you can expect more fakes from that venue than at your local shops. Still, I have been able to snag some decent patched DCU's from Ebay very cheaply and they are real. You just have to use extreme caution and know what to look for.

 

 

Right now is the time to buy DCU's if you want to collect them. You can get great pieces right now for cheap prices. Not really a big market to fake these....right now. If the interest continues to grow with DCU's, then you can guarantee to see fakes a plenty.

Arch

[Nkomo]

Forgot to ask you guys this....what do you think about repatching stripped DCU's?

Arch

[George]

I have been a serious collector of OIF uniforms since 2004. I provenance the unifoms I get. That is, I obtain them directly from the soldiers that wore them, than I record what unit they were in and when they deployed. I always ask for a photograh of them wearing the uniform in Iraq. Sometimes, they will tell me their stories about their experiences which I also record. For example, I have a set of DCU worn by a LT during the battle in Fallujah in Nov 2004, complete with a photograph of him wearing it on his Bradley. This is not only true of DCU but also ACU. One of the first units to deply with ACU was the Georgia Army National Guard 48th Infantry Brigade. I have several initial issue ACU from the 48th with the first contract, prefix W91A2K. Also the initial ACU were issued with velcro-backed woodland subdued insignia not the digitial or grey/black. But, these initial woodland subdued SSI were purpose manufactured with the velcro woven into the merrowed edge and not just sewn on. Also initial issue transitional ACU nametapes and rank were not digital but rather BDU green tapes with velcro. Now, the ACU may be going out and replaced with another camo scheme giving collectors still more possibilities. I have even found it very interesting to try and get all the 48th Brigade variations of velcro backed SSI worn during their 2005 deployment. They returned with all kinds of Theater made velcro backed patches for their ACU.

[gwb123]

Forgot to ask you guys this....what do you think about repatching stripped DCU's?

Arch

 

 

The problem is how do you know exactly what was on it before?

 

You may very well be able to identify the unit from the shape of the patch (although some of these modern brigades seem to use the same overall shapes endlessly). But how do you know if the patch that was on there was US or local made? Was it color, subdued in green and black, or desert subdued? At different stages of the first deployment, anything was possible.

 

Assuming you get past such questions, if you decide to go ahead and replace the patch this should be documented. That's as simple as placing an index card in the pocket of the uniform with the date and modifications you made to the uniform. You could even mark the inside of the garment, behind the that patch that was restored, or use an obviously different reverse thread, such as red to mark the restoration. Believe it or not, musuems use a similar techniques when restoring and documenting.historic items. And as long as the next owner is made aware of it, fine and dandy.

 

Personally, I don't have a problem with it to a point. If you are talking one patch that is pretty obvious that is one thing. If you are talking a uniform that has been completely stripped of anything interesting, I would not waste my time. As noted here and on other threads, there are just so many in the market right now, why bother?

 

The only exception I would make to that statement if you made one of those "lucky finds" where the stripped patches were thrown into one of the pockets.

 

As you said above, you are collecting these for your own pleasure, so why not?

[Brian Dentino]

Interesting thread. I will keep my comments brief:

First, if you collect these items, provenance is everything. I only have one set of DCU's from a friend of mine that were worn in Iraq a couple years ago. He is in Afganistan right now and I expect several other items of his to go in my collection. I have pictures of him wearing them, but would not trade/sell these things for the world.

Second, in the future, these items will only go up in value for collectors. Real items are a finite supply, and years down the road there will be NO more "genuine" authentic items made. So, just like the "old" collectors that talk about WWII uniforms in piles being sold for next to nothing 30 years ago, these will also go up in value as time passes.

 

So, now is the time to collect them if you want to invest for the future. Just my opinion........after all, look at all the things that were once considered surplus and sold for next to nothing and is not worth lots of $$$$.

[Nkomo]

The problem is how do you know exactly what was on it before?

 

You may very well be able to identify the unit from the shape of the patch (although some of these modern brigades seem to use the same overall shapes endlessly). But how do you know if the patch that was on there was US or local made? Was it color, subdued in green and black, or desert subdued? At different stages of the first deployment, anything was possible.

 

Assuming you get past such questions, if you decide to go ahead and replace the patch this should be documented. That's as simple as placing an index card in the pocket of the uniform with the date and modifications you made to the uniform. You could even mark the inside of the garment, behind the that patch that was restored, or use an obviously different reverse thread, such as red to mark the restoration. Believe it or not, musuems use a similar techniques when restoring and documenting.historic items. And as long as the next owner is made aware of it, fine and dandy.

 

Personally, I don't have a problem with it to a point. If you are talking one patch that is pretty obvious that is one thing. If you are talking a uniform that has been completely stripped of anything interesting, I would not waste my time. As noted here and on other threads, there are just so many in the market right now, why bother?

 

The only exception I would make to that statement if you made one of those "lucky finds" where the stripped patches were thrown into one of the pockets.

 

As you said above, you are collecting these for your own pleasure, so why not?

I run across some interesting DCU's from time to time that have been partially stripped and I will usually buy them to be repatched at a later date. I go after ones that I can readily identify the patches that are missing. :thumbsup:

[a6skin9]

I started buying combat patched DCU/BDU's a little over a year ago. I served in the army in the 80's and never paid any real attention to anything post Korean War. When buying DCU/BDU's I normally only buy combat patched uniforms or ones with unique patches and I only buy them at thrift stores paying no more than $5.00 apiece. I believe in the future these will be as highly sought after as WWII uniforms are today.

[Andrei]

DCU will be the next faked unform. In the forthcoming years, expect to see more and more SF/Ranger/SEAL patched up DCUs. I am confident about that.

 

OIF/OEF DCU is the jungle jacket of the 21st Century. And the last uniform with sewn on patches and sometimes in-country made insignias.

I have some in my collection and I believe already too many. Had I the time, money and room, I would buy all the DCUs I could with all the patches like the Vietnam jungle jackets.

 

The DCU deserves all the interest of the collectors of today, it is a beautiful combat uniform worn by brave soldiers just like the jungle jacket was in its time.

[Bob Hudson]

I mentioned I found an Airborne Engineer's shirt so I thought I'd share that (anyone know the patch on his left shoulder????).

 

 

This one I found a couple years (as is often the case when you find these in thrift stores, I actually found two).

 

[ehrentitle]

DCU will be the next faked unform. In the forthcoming years, expect to see more and more SF/Ranger/SEAL patched up DCUs. I am confident about that.

 

OIF/OEF DCU is the jungle jacket of the 21st Century. And the last uniform with sewn on patches and sometimes in-country made insignias.

I have some in my collection and I believe already too many. Had I the time, money and room, I would buy all the DCUs I could with all the patches like the Vietnam jungle jackets.

 

The DCU deserves all the interest of the collectors of today, it is a beautiful combat uniform worn by brave soldiers just like the jungle jacket was in its time.

 

U.S. Army Acquisition Executive Support Agency, he was probably a contracting officer.

[Nkomo]

if its got names, ranks, and unit patches, depending again on which unit, then that would be a little harder to find nowadays, as the DCUs are drying up due to several collectors snapping them up...so you might see less of them in surplus and flea and thrift store.......

What do you mean several collectors snapping them up? I wouldn't know anything about that.

[panzerwerk]

I have very recently started collecting BDU's and DCU's , I was collecting mostly eastern bloc uniforms , but prices and the economy have sent me looking for bargains, now I am hooked and am always on the lookout for Woodland mostly , but if I find a nice DCU i will get it , I dont get them for any possible future value and I dont go out of my way to find SF stuff , I have been into Medical jackets and some Air Force stuff as of late , I do think these will only go up in value ,and I think in time the fakers will do like they have done with WWII and NAM era stuff , if there is money to be made , its bound to happen , I have seen 4 or 5 auctions for the same Navy SEAL DCU on ebay , with the same name , so although its possible this guy had a buch of sets he's selling , or some guy is making them up , to be honest I dont know , ACU's will only be worth something if they have province , I have 2 sets of ACU's with pics of the guys wearing them , they are not the ones necessarily in the pics , but they were worn in Iraq , they also updated some of the patches and tapes as they got new ones .