Has it come to this????

[USMCRECON]

I don't get the whole re-enactor thing either, at least most of it. Oh I've heard that they do it for the troops and educating the public regarding important history and those points are wonderful, especially when they do it at public events. It's great. I was at an outdoor show last month and there were about 6 civil war looking guys marching around... kinda neat and it adds to the whole atmosphere.

 

But on the flip side for example, when I see someone build a "hootch" and show guys hanging out like they are in 1968 Southeast Asia, I just try to wonder what they get from such pretending. Don't get me wrong, I'm not slamming what they call fun, I just don't understand it. And in the past when I try to ask about it, replies seem VERY defensive to say the least.

 

Of course you also hear all the stories about power struggles, etc. but you'll get that with any club.... car clubs, shooting clubs and the like. Oh well, harmless fun. Maybe I'll get a better understanding one day.

 

You may be right. I didn't delve into addressing motive in my post at all with my post.

 

I was just pointing out the dichotomy of reenactors who insist on absolute accuracy down to the button on a jacket or the stitching on a canteen cover but overlook the incredible inaccuracy of having overweight, 30-40-50 year old men portraying teen-20 something, trim, fit combat soldiers.

 

I freely admit that I don't reenact but I have absolutely no problem with those that do. But, if it's fun, call it that and don't get wrapped around the axle about some inaccuracies. If they're going to get up tight about tiny little inaccuracies, then they need to eliminate a major inaccuracy and use reenactors that represent the appearance of the troops they are trying to portray.....that's all I was getting at.

[topdcnut]

I must say, I concure completely with Mrhell after preenacting usn for 28 yrs I do not "get" reenacting at all.

[willysmb44]

I'd lighten up a bit and just not get so wrapped around the axel about that stuff. The whole idea is to have fun so just go out there and have fun without sweating the small crap.

Fine, then the Germans can wear plastic helmets and woodland BDUs because at a distance they “sort of” look like SS camo, right? We’re not talking about someone who cannot make themselves 19 again or if the carbine has a flat or round bolt, it’s a flipping WEB SITE advertisement! I’m pretty sure even the most dense person with no concept of history would probably be able to know the internet didn’t exist in WW2.

I don't get the whole re-enactor thing either, at least most of it.

It requires no more a reason than you do when people ask why you collect “old Army stuff.” Why do people need REASONS to take pleasure in the pastimes they have? I can’t help but wonder if stamp collectors get asked that as often as re-enactors do.

[shrapneldude]

It requires no more a reason than you do when people ask why you collect “old Army stuff.” Why do people need REASONS to take pleasure in the pastimes they have? I can’t help but wonder if stamp collectors get asked that as often as re-enactors do.

 

Never seen a stamp collector go out and put on a fake Mailman costume and start pretending to deliver mail...so...you're talking apples and oranges my friend. People collect all sorts of things from bottle caps to wigs to old McDonalds' burgers...but I think in a lot of people's minds, you cross a certain threshold of ... for lack of a better term... weirdness...when you start dressing up and pretending. That doesn't mean there's something wrong with it, or that it's any more or less obessessive than collecting old junk that was used in battle...

but, right wrong or whatever, you'd probably have a much easier time explaining to someone why you COLLECT vs. why you Put on old clothes and pretend to shoot at people.

 

I'm not saying any of you HAS to have a reason for what you do...it's your thing, so who cares what people think? Just don't seem so surprised when veterans, the general public, and even military collectors think you're a bit "off" because of it. Let that be your answer..."I do it because I like to." Plain and simple. Don't come in and say you're going to recreat history from the ground up, because it's never gonna be 100% right and you'll have naysayers and nitpickers. Don't say you wear Silver Stars because your great grandaddy knew a guy who got one...don't say you can do the perfect impression of a WWII era ranger complete with field gear and period original boots when you're 50 years old and 300 lbs. Just say..."I like doing this and screw you if you don't like it." This is America after all.

I dunno...maybe if you get wrapped up in who does what right or wrong, and who has the audacity to question your impression then you ought to just quit. I wouldn't do something so involved and expensive if it caused me that much grief.

[snake36bravo]

I've pondered chiming in here since I already know the minefield has been heavily sowed. :think:

 

I've met reenactors. 101st, GD and a lone Fallschirmjäger. Most are collectors and appreciate military history. Some have even served. Most I have noted, have not. Things can go from good to asphalt pretty quick when you start to foxhole psychoanalyze the reasons they do what they do. Luckily I've never made one mad enough to shoot at me with blanks. I'll even admit that I've visited many a 'unit' website to look at their impressions. Still, I'm part of that head scratchers club when I see these folks.

 

Part of me thinks it's ridiculous to get your skivvies in a knot over a magnetic advertisement on a WW2 era Jeep when it's being driven by a bunch of men who never fought WW2 in the first place who are fighting something they call a 'battle'.

 

Then a part of me says, it's just a club thing man and with all clubs some are just plain better than others. The best part of it is, it's so much safer than having to actually fight a real war.

 

"Why re-enact?", I say to myself. I can actually get this to an extent. Having rolled around in a '64 VW and have The Stones come on kinds of zaps you into a twirly mindwarp, buzz free naturally. Suddenly everything goes Paisley on you. You develop tunnel vision to the extent that every vehicle around you isnt modern anymore. They are all from the 60s with the mixed in old beater 50s cars. Even the architecture almost changes. For an instant your there. I swear it's true. Either that or I need therapy.

 

So maybe that's it. These guys and gals are just chasing that vibe. The pulse of the time. Put on Glenn Miller, grab a WAC, or WAC grab your Mac and forget about the AXIS for awhile. There's always work on Monday.

 

I still wonder though if any of these reenactors get PTSD from all those 'battles'. And does their insurance cover it? You know, the ones who really take it seriously as a craft.

 

As for educating the public, isn't that what real veterans who were there are for? Why not invite them instead? Yes, I realize their numbers grow ever smaller everyday nor do I expect them to retake St. Lo, Fort Indiantown Gap at 80 years old. But to me I'd rather have my son talk to someone who actually dealt with the SS in Normandy than someone who is semi-quoting something they heard, read or saw on a television program or injecting a bias.

 

One thing I do like is the static displays. So in the end while I might chuckle at the 235lb 509th paratrooper laying waste to all those nasty nazis I can appreciate the real gear, uniforms, and vehicles. The rest is just filler. More often than not, lots of it.

 

In the end I'll have to quote my wife and then rapidly guzzle a beer with a whiskey chaser to re-gain my manhood, "Why do men never grow up?"

 

[USMCRECON]

Fine, then the Germans can wear plastic helmets and woodland BDUs because at a distance they “sort of” look like SS camo, right? We’re not talking about someone who cannot make themselves 19 again or if the carbine has a flat or round bolt, it’s a flipping WEB SITE advertisement! I’m pretty sure even the most dense person with no concept of history would probably be able to know the internet didn’t exist in WW2. ...........

 

Sorry "willismb44" but I think you missed my point. First, let me reiterate that I have absolutely nothing against those who reenact. I also preenacted for over 29 years including three combat tours in three separate conflicts but do not reenact.

 

I was pointing out the reenacting dichotomy of older, out of shape men role-playing young, fit combat troops and then claiming they insist on absolute historically accuracy. The two are mutually exclusive.

 

If you insist on absolute historical accuracy in a presentation of a combat unit down to the gnat's eye (no plastic helmets, no BDUs for German uniforms, etc.), particularly an elite combat unit, you can't have older, out of shape men doing the portrayals. You're right, no one can can make themselves 19 again and no on can make themselves thin again (or maybe they can??). Let's face it; even in real life, some men were unfit for military service based on age and over- or under-weight issues. When my best buddy from high school was called for his draft physical in 1966, he was ruled 4-F because he was overweight (he also died of a massive heart attack at age 53 but that's another issue).

 

If, on the other hand, you're just out to have fun then don't be anal about all the little details and the older, out of shape guys are just fine. Go have fun. But it's one or the other; absolute accuracy...all the way, or just forget about it and have fun.

 

OK; I've posted my thoughts. I don't intend this to go on and on as a "he said, she said" ad nauseam.

 

Y'all have a great Halloween!!

[Sgt_Rock_EasyCo]

Sorry "willismb44" but I think you missed my point. First, let me reiterate that I have absolutely nothing against those who reenact. I also preenacted for over 29 years including three combat tours in three separate conflicts but do not reenact.

 

I was pointing out the reenacting dichotomy of older, out of shape men role-playing young, fit combat troops and then claiming they insist on absolute historically accuracy. The two are mutually exclusive.

 

If you insist on absolute historical accuracy in a presentation of a combat unit down to the gnat's eye (no plastic helmets, no BDUs for German uniforms, etc.), particularly an elite combat unit, you can't have older, out of shape men doing the portrayals. You're right, no one can can make themselves 19 again and no on can make themselves thin again (or maybe they can??). Let's face it; even in real life, some men were unfit for military service based on age and over- or under-weight issues. When my best buddy from high school was called for his draft physical in 1966, he was ruled 4-F because he was overweight (he also died of a massive heart attack at age 53 but that's another issue).

 

If, on the other hand, you're just out to have fun then don't be anal about all the little details and the older, out of shape guys are just fine. Go have fun. But it's one or the other; absolute accuracy...all the way, or just forget about it and have fun.

 

OK; I've posted my thoughts. I don't intend this to go on and on as a "he said, she said" ad nauseam.

 

Y'all have a great Halloween!!

 

RECON,

 

We can agree to disagree. People that can afford to purchase and display gear are typically too old to look the correct age that we were when we served. Other than higher ranking NCO's or Officers, that is. I don't prefer fat guys in reenacting either but many of those guys can lose weight. Old guys don't look much different than young guys when everybody is geared up.

 

Rock

[cco23i]

The reason I started a ground crew living history unit is because when people go to airshows and displays where "aircrew" type reenactors will be there I want people to know that airplanes don't fix themselves and pilots sure as hell don't fix them either. It's an education thing for me and to honor my fellow ground crew from the first in 1917 until today.

 

Scott

[USMCRECON]

The reason I started a ground crew living history unit is because when people go to airshows and displays where "aircrew" type reenactors will be there I want people to know that airplanes don't fix themselves and pilots sure as hell don't fix them either. It's an education thing for me and to honor my fellow ground crew from the first in 1917 until today.

 

Scott

 

Good for you. Not everyone was Airborne Ranger SF Recon, et al.

[J_Andrews]

My personal, geezer, live-in-the-past (Golly, a Freudian slip, re living history?) view is that for about 20 years now reenactors are firstly out for their own ENTERTAINMENT -- having a jolly weekend with the guys.

 

Secondarily, the purpose is to get misty about the old vets -- ooops, I mean HONOR them for their service.

 

And the ratio is usually 80/20, fun versus history.

 

To put it another way, I for one do not EXPECT authenticity or sensitivity to history from the mainstream reenactors, any more than I expect it from TV or movies or video games.

 

When I do encounter the rarer reenactor(s), it is a pleasant surprise.

 

They are free to express themselves in any fashion they wish, right?

[D.A.T.]

RECON,

 

We can agree to disagree. People that can afford to purchase and display gear are typically too old to look the correct age that we were when we served. Other than higher ranking NCO's or Officers, that is. I don't prefer fat guys in reenacting either but many of those guys can lose weight. Old guys don't look much different than young guys when everybody is geared up.

 

Rock

Rock, sounds like you've taken the words right out of my keyboard!

I'm over 50, overweight, and over here! I've only been doing "light" reenacting for a couple years, when I first joined this Forum, I stated I'm in it just for the fun. I don't pretend to be anybody else, I put on the ol' ww-2 US woolies and just be myself, a tanker without a tank, or a behind the lines Photographer, because I do take most of the pictures at an Event. I couldn't picture myself running across a field with my trusty 45, attacking a German machine gun nest in front of a bunch of people, be fun to watch though! I like displays, US army camp, tents etc., and talking to the "civilians", and watch thier reactions, when I answer thier questions in German, with an American accent. :w00t:

And then the campfire evenings, bar-b-queing, couple of beers, B.S.'ing. My wife also shakes her head, and asks me what I'm trying to prove, my answer, "Nothing, I'm only in it for the fun." Maybe I will grow up someday, I hope not.

I also love jeep rides, this picture was taken in France, that's my leg danglin' outside of the jeep, wearing the "forbidden" French double buckle boots, French female driver, canteen cup full of French red wine, it don't get any better then this! :thumbsup:

[private panda]

I haven't served, and I reenact, but then I'm also in high school... Anyways I try for a fairly accurate reenactment, no plastic helmets or french boots, the only thing I have a problem with is my glasses and finding uniform pieces in my size (i'm tall and broad, but some of the reenactors I see at the events I attend are extremely overweight, and they bitch at me for forgetting to take my BCD glasses off, WHEN WE'RE EATING LUNCH, AWAY FROM THE PUBLIC!

[D.A.T.]

Just to set the record straight, and/or who cares, my French boots have long since been cut down to low quarter size, my mannequin is now proudly wearing them in my little "war room". I've also had eye glasses made for me in US ww-2 style, not quite cheap, BUT, if you're gonna do it, do it right!

At an Event, we eat in front of people, in our mess kits, drink out of canteens or canteen cups, (wine/beer moderatley )one of our members has an old ww-2 gas burner(?) and heat up chow with that, I usally take a big pot of chili with me, an old recipe my mother gave to my wife. :thumbsup: I try my best to keep my uniform as original as can be, I know, people are looking at me, and taking pictures, and asking questions.

I'm mostly or always in Switzerland for an Event, and mostly the ONLY American around for miles, it shocks alot of people when I talk to them, they say, "Oh, you really are an American".

English has become more or less my second language, that was one of the reasons I joined this Forum, to get back together with Americans, of course, with the other Nationalities who speak and write english too.

So, believe me, I'm not trying to steal the show, I just want to be a part of!

Who knows, someday I might grow up, but I'm not ready quite yet!

DAT/Pat

[jumpwings]

Someone mentioned taking a veteran along to public educational events?

 

We, the FSSF-UK, have had for the past three years William "Sam" Magee (FSSF 6-3) along to our events, he gives presentations and talks to other units about what he as a veteran of WWII wants and expects from us...

 

He has also been on field trips with us to the battle fields in Italy and southern France where he and the FSSF served, camping out wi us in the field whilst wearing WWII uniforms...

 

When I first got into WWII re-enacting, I asked the veterans of that conflict "what do you want me to do and how do you want me to represent you", and have been following their advice and guidance ever since....

 

Having spent a couple of evenings soaking wet on the actual site of the battle field of WWII,(the top of La Defensa) and ate a coldham and eggs ration next morning I have nothing to prove...

 

I also hear talk about our European farby re-enactors, but guess wot?...Ye can get yer toy gun and go bang, or walk around in yer pristine 100% accurate uniform all day if ye want, but they live where it all took place, and don't re-enact in a little field somewhere in the UK, the US or Canada...And now I am living right on the area where the Bernhardt line was..Living where it all took place (for one campaign at least)...

 

Enjoy yer hobby...But really, no really...A website ad on yer display jeep? Fk sake.... :thumbdown: